Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Big savings needed in Haringey. Where should the savings come from?
Now the party's truly over. I've been talking for a while now about the need for local authorities to save something like 20-25% from their budgets. This evening Panorama took up the theme. It's now out there. For Haringey that'll mean savings of something like £80-100m in savings. That's huge! We're facing the biggest cuts since the 1970s. Handled badly, it will be an emergency.
So what do we think? What would we choose? We can sit back and let the Council take decisions or we can share the responsibility and contribute our views. Probably about as exciting as doing your expenses, but something we should probably be doing.
Here's how Haringey's spending is split right now:
So discuss. For more details on Haringey's finances, see this area on their website.
Some rules. Only constructive discussion allowed. If you want to party-politic or bash the Council, please go to another discussion. I'm opening this discussion for constructive discussion only. Break those rules and ya get nuked!
So what do we think? What would we choose? We can sit back and let the Council take decisions or we can share the responsibility and contribute our views. Probably about as exciting as doing your expenses, but something we should probably be doing.
Here's how Haringey's spending is split right now:
So discuss. For more details on Haringey's finances, see this area on their website.
Some rules. Only constructive discussion allowed. If you want to party-politic or bash the Council, please go to another discussion. I'm opening this discussion for constructive discussion only. Break those rules and ya get nuked!
Tags for Forum Posts: cuts, public spending cuts
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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I suspect, Ian, that many people - me included - have a sceptical view of Haringey's PR based on past experience.
It's rare that something is plain misleading. I'd have to go back five years for an example. But 'spin' there certainly is. For example, the same 'initiatives' are relaunched - usually as photo-ops for a particular politician. Stories appear in the local papers about e.g. 'swoops'; and "clean-ups" of fly-tipping. While factually accurate, they are sometimes presented as 'evidence' that the Council is having a significant longer term impact. You and I know such claims were untrue. So do many if not most other local residents.
How relevant are the local newspapers? None are now based in Haringey. They seem mainly to carry press releases - supposedly 'balanced' with a few quotes from residents or the opposition party. These papers employ so few journalists that even the best ones lack time and resources to do the digging needed. When was the last time you read a serious and controversial investigative piece in our local papers which wasn't already in the public domain? (One journalist told me their editor avoids any risk.)
I'd guess most people who dislike PR would have no problem with e.g. fire safety campaigns. Their repugnance is for spin doctors and marketing gurus who Heather Brooke describes as"a small cadre of people lacking any productive skills [who are] able to bamboozle whole industries into hiring them en masse and handing over to them key decision-making power."
It's like Wag The Dog. But without the humour and political edge; nor Robert De Niro, Anne Heche and Dustin Hoffman.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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So amongst all the "discussion" only a couple of people have not ignored the elephant in the room. Children and young people, nearly 60% of the council's budget. How does Michael Gove's new legislation affect our schools? Could they be made academies and therefore not be affected by local council budgeting? Could we drop the London weighting that the teachers are indiscriminately paid, even when they don't live in London (let alone dirty old Haringey)?
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Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on
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There we are, John. If only we'd elected Jon(athan) he might have brought his expertise on Academies & Specialist Schools to bear on the question. And I think Matt Cuthbert wanted to site a secondary school at St Anns Hospital. Any parents/wannabe parents out there who'd be up to emulating the Wandsworth Bolingbrooke Hospital group's initiative?
I assume that under the Coalition's schizophrenic schools policy schools/parents groups who embrace the Academy & "Free Schools" offer will benefit from Lord Ashcroft's billions, while those that don't will have to manage with a few thousand from the LD 'pupil premium' streamlet.
And if both Ladder schools academise will D. Lammy's kids return?
(No nukes, Hugh. After all I did vote to scrap Trident.)
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Permalink Reply by HoL Site Admin on
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This conversation was going off track. We value your discussion however so have moved a chunk to another thread.
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Permalink Reply by Ruth on
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After over controlling, over curriculuming, over testing and over stating for many years with previous Labour gov, the coalition now wants an anything goes type of schools policy it seems. Savings maybe? in the short term but long term great inequalities of achievements and education levels.
Those with failing parents (its not just the schools who are failing in some places but the parents surely) will get the least and the worst and later on will need more support, more money, and therefore, no savings made. We would have another generation of failed young people.
I hope we are not in for short termism.... I feel lucky to have had a good education which helped me escape the factory floor and the limits of my class background. We should look to some examples of better times but not right back to the Victorian ages when anyone could set up a school even the old widowed lady down the road who needed to eat.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Here's a piece on this issue from Radio 4's The World This Week yesterday. It includes a short piece to microphone by a very 'active citizen' I've met through my work, Giles Gibson, who runs the Herne Hill Forum. It also includes one of Lambeth's councillors talking about the ideas I wrote about just above.
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The slider bar lets you jump to the Lambeth item. (About 80% of the way through.) Though the few minutes given aren't enough to do more than raise interesting questions. I also found it irritating that Giles Gibson said: "the local community are the experts". This version of 'everybody can do everything' is deeply unhelpful. We need effective collaborative working between local residents and professionals - who each have different and complementary expertise.
More interesting for me was the bit which followed - the Leader of Windsor & Maidenhead council. Their methods of finding savings include making far more information available to residents. They publish online all expenditure over £500.
This has enormous potential in Haringey. At minimum it could end the farce of the Council's accounts being nominally 'open' - but only for a limited period. (This year in August when many people are on holiday) And then only to residents with lots of time to visit the Council's offices; and who already know what specific items they want to see.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor.)
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Apologies, I meant to add that the item is at about 24:55.
I think you're being a bit hard on Giles, Alan. I imagine what he meant is that the residents are the experts in what's wanted, how the facility can be best used. Not like you to jump to conclusions so quickly and not give someone the benefit of doubt.
Publishing expenditure over £500 will no longer matter of choice. The Government announced plans to make this requirement a ten days ago.
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Well, maybe I'm being unfair and Giles Gibson was quoted out of context. But I'd have agreed if he'd said: "The local community are also experts.
Because I don't agree when you write that:"the residents are the experts in what's wanted, how the facility can be best used.
Residents' knowledge, experience and ideas are invaluable. But so is professional expertise and experience. The challenge is to bring them together in a real dialogue - and in practical joint projects.
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Absolutely agree. Perhaps I should have said ".....the residents are also experts..."
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But this isn't going to happen, is it, especially now (referring to your last paragraph). The danger is that if the cuts in Haringey are really severe, there will be a distinct shortage of said professionals in the borough to have a dialogue with residents. Those who remain will probably be expected to do the jobs of the many who have departed in addition to their own and may simply be unable to interact that much with residents...however, if, as the coalition government (and many on this site) seems to think, local residents ARE the experts, then let's get rid of those costly professionals and have a free-for-all!
Instead of sitting at your PCs endlessly pontificating about all this, why not actually DO something if you feel so strongly about it? Or is it easier to just sit on here writing in the hope that someone of some significance will read it and, er, do something about it? (replying to Alan Stanton's post of 31 May 2010)
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