Women's safety

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Nina Lovelace on February 18, 2010 at 10:06

I have lived on Green Lanes for 10 years and never felt truly unsafe/scared - only recently a little due to the guy who was assaulting women (did he get caught?) but for that to happen once in 10 years I think is pretty good. And it has probably reminded me not to get too comfortable anyway eg wearing headphones while walking at night etc.

In terms of being hassled by men, I have never had a problem, but then am off the streets during the week and daytime as am off at work. I like others on this site have always felt safe because of the 'buzz' of the street - there is a feeling that there are always people around so you are not alone. Also Green Lanes is quite family orientated and these values make the place feel like a community - yes you get what appear to be out of work blokes haging around bored but this is London.

I felt more unsafe back in the day when I was a country bumpkin going to county towns on a Friday night, where there was always a fight at the taxi rank!

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Permalink Reply by Louise Nazeraj on February 18, 2010 at 10:11

I used to get this about five years ago but it was not particularly sinister, just a bit over familiar. Now, pushing 40 with a buggy in tow I'm practically invisible!

With regards to the last comment about young Turkish and Albanian men, I suspect it has more to do with their perceptions of western morals than how they treat women in general. I'm married to an Albanian man and in my experience they would not dream of treating women/girls from their own culture like this. Having seen how young British tourists behave in their own countries I'm afraid there is an assumption that we're all up for anything. My husband worked on a Greek island for four years before coming here and his opinion of British women was pretty low (before he met me obviously!!). Anyway, this does not excuse this behaviour but may go some way to explaining it.

I think you just have to employ the City rule and just not look anyone directly and ignore any unwanted attention. I had much worse experiences in Italy in my early twenties when I couldn't walk anywhere without being whistled at, beeped at, chased on a scooter, pinched or some lewd hand gesture made.

With regard to a retort, something along the lines of "Would you like someone to talk to your mother/sister like this?" might hit home.

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Permalink Reply by Ruth Mundy on February 18, 2010 at 10:20

That's a pretty good suggestion, I'm going to bear that in mind!

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Permalink Reply by Tammy Palmer on February 18, 2010 at 11:06

Hi there
ahve read this thread with great interest - I have had different experiences of this - I used to live in Stokey just off Green Lanes and have to say I felt very safe living there - there are lots of 24 hour shops and lots of people around - and I never really got a huge amount of hassle and felt quite happy to walk around late on my own at night
my worst experience was on Blackstock Road on a busy Saturday afternoon whilst walking with my boyfriend was surrounded by a group of young men - who pushed my boyfriend out of the way and started trying to force me down a side road - rather than being scared I was actually really angry and shouted at them - they continued to follow us all the way down to Finsbury Park shouting very explicit things at me. I do find the Turnpike Lane end of Green lanes a lot more intimidating and like a lot of the other posters have had to endure the kissing noises, and comments - I also used to have very long blonde hair and had a few rather unpleasent incidents of men grabbing my hair and pulling it or stroking it - one memorable incident on the 73 one evening I felt my hair being stroked and the man sitting behind me was holding my hair and stroking it I actually had to ask him ot let go as I got off the bus- yuck!!! its not even like I have hair advert worthy hair!! eventually I went as far as to get my hair cut much shorter as it attracted less attention
To echo Kits point I have also been with female friends in Mayfair and we were harassed by a group of very well spoken white men - their language was really quite disgusting as well, so I think it happens all over the place. That's no justification for it though and its not nice when it happens

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Permalink Reply by pamish on February 18, 2010 at 11:46

Obviously the only answer is a feminist revolution. Short term and long term.

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Permalink Reply by Louise Nazeraj on February 18, 2010 at 12:09

Well here's something to make your blood boil: a report out yesterday canvassing the views of young British women stated that a high percentage believed it was the woman's fault if she was attacked or assaulted if she wore provocative clothes or accepted a drink off a stranger.

I heard it on Radio 4 and can't remember the actual percentage but it was alarmingly high.

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Permalink Reply by Nina Lovelace on February 18, 2010 at 13:39

People who ever think women 'ask for it' and attacks are 'their fault' are just plain odd.

Of course the reality of our world is that you might bring on a greater level of danger to yourself by standing out in some way/getting so drunk so you can't stand up, but the attack still relies on a person deciding to do something horrible to you, so how can it ever be a woman's fault?

Equally, all women should be able to wear short skirts and get drunk if they want to in our society - we might not always like the effect, but most people are moderate in their behaviour. Is it their fault if society includes some people who want to prey on them?

All I would say is that sometimes I think people can be foolish and put themselves at risk - but that goes as much for blokes getting drunk and picking fights as it does a women getting tiddly and walking home alone.

I think women get angry at women around these issues, who they think are being foolish as they think it can make the world a more dangerous place for them overall.

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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on February 18, 2010 at 14:18

all women should be able to wear short skirts and get drunk if they want to in our society

Hear, hear!

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Permalink Reply by Pat Cadigan on February 18, 2010 at 12:13

I've lived just off Green Lanes since 1996. The only thing that ever happened to me was in 1998, when I was coming home after visiting someone on Wightman Road (near the corner of Fairfax). A young boy of 12 or 13 followed me along Green Lanes and then jumped on my back, attempting to take my bag. I thought it was my son who was about that age at the time (he was always kidding around with me). Angrily, I yelled something about telling his father. The boy took off running as fast as he could, empty-handed.

I also used to have very long, very blonde hair. I never had any problems with men touching me but they did approach me a lot, wanting to take me for a drink. I should mention, I'm an older woman--I was in my mid to late 40s during my long blonde hair period--so young men never bothered with me. I'm from the US and I've lived in various places, some less safe than others. I have learned that snappy, withering responses can be hazardous to your health. Men who approach you on the street making kissing noises and talking dirty are not well-adjusted and secure. A harsh, withering, or rude come-back can make them decide that you need to be taught a lesson.

But you don't have to be meek or cowering, either. The old advice about walking with confidence, looking like you know exactly where you're going and you won't stop till you get there is good. Men who bother you in the street do it to see the response--they're actually just bullies. Don't respond.

The other thing I've made a point of doing since I've lived here is shopping locally and being friendly to all the people who work in the shops--e.g., "Hello, how are you?" "It's really cold/warm/rainy today, isn't it?" "These are wonderful tomatoes," etc. If I meet them on the street, I say hello. People who look connected to their surroundings aren't usually targets for harrassment or worse, as someone is likely to come to their aid and bullies only pick on those they think won't be much trouble.

None of this is fool-proof and I know that being older makes me practically invisible to young men with something to prove. Sometimes, the fact that I've been hearing the same thing about women and safety for almost 60 years makes me really, really tired.

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Permalink Reply by Tammy Palmer on February 18, 2010 at 12:28

Sound Advice Pat, I think you are right if you give off an air of confidence - look like you live locally and know the place it may prevent you from being as much of a target - I got to know the local shopkeepers really well when we lived down the other end of Green Lanes and always found them really friendly - it also meant I felt that if I ever was being hassled I could go and ask for help from someone I knew.
I always make sure I wear trainers if I am walking alone at night as well as a hat - to cover up the blonde hair!!! I also make sure I text my boyfriend from a well sit safe place and tell him where I am and how long I will be
and I just try not to look vulnerable - pretty pathetic that these are the steps you have to take to feel safe but then I don't think is a problem unique to London - it happens everywhere!

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Permalink Reply by matt on February 18, 2010 at 13:14

... I don't think is a problem unique to London - it happens everywhere!

Yes true unfortunately. Travelling through Egypt years ago I was struck by how some female backpackers got major hassle and harassment whilst others got practically none. It did seem to come down to a general air of confidence.

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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on February 18, 2010 at 13:30

Nothing to do with this of course.... (beware mild adult content).

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