Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Local Parties dismiss voters' sense of place
Those of you who've been reading the posts on the site for a while will know that I hold strong views about our sense of place in Harringay..........well in any place really. Our sense of history's part of that, our sense of community is a part and our name is part.
Back in April 2008, Nilgun Canver offered the following:
Today Justin Hinchcliffe, Chair of the Tottenham Tories joined in on Twitter with a tweet apparently ridiculing a voter's wish to have her place of residence recognised as Harringay:
What is it with our politicians. Don't they get it. Many of us simply don't wish to have our area chopped up and repackaged to suit their notions of political entities or boundaries. We have the right to choose - not you.
Are there any other representatives from the local blues and reds who'd care to share their views on this issue? And what of the local Liberals. We've heard nothing from you on this. We'd welcome hearing what you think.
Let me leave the last word to Thomas Burke, writing in 1921:
(See my posting in the history group for more on Burke)
Back in April 2008, Nilgun Canver offered the following:
We've discussed and we have agreed to call the area Harringay Green Lanes and Too much emphasis on Harringay confuses everyone with the borough Haringey and I’m afraid it refers to the Harringay ward and excludes the Gardens and other target areas.
Today Justin Hinchcliffe, Chair of the Tottenham Tories joined in on Twitter with a tweet apparently ridiculing a voter's wish to have her place of residence recognised as Harringay:
What is it with our politicians. Don't they get it. Many of us simply don't wish to have our area chopped up and repackaged to suit their notions of political entities or boundaries. We have the right to choose - not you.
Are there any other representatives from the local blues and reds who'd care to share their views on this issue? And what of the local Liberals. We've heard nothing from you on this. We'd welcome hearing what you think.
Let me leave the last word to Thomas Burke, writing in 1921:
But do you think the inhabitants of those villas will rank themselves with those of Tottenham or Hornsey? Not likely. They are of Harringay. The guide-book was right: it is a suburb with a distinct individuality of its own.
Proud of its lineage, proud of its appearance in thirteenth-century records, it declines to surrender its identity to those who claim lordship over it. Before Tottenham and Hornsey were, Harringay was so often mentioned in ancient documents as to receive the honour of being spelt in six different ways - sure proof of importance. Indeed, the name Hornsey came into currency only through a corruption of Haringhea and Haringey; and it is therefore fit that the stout fellows of Harringay should defend the style and identity of their venerable village from the encroachments of that modern upstart Hornsey.
(See my posting in the history group for more on Burke)
Tags for Forum Posts: harringay name
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on
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I call it Harringay and always have. The boundaries for me are what is set out in Hughs maps and thought that well before this site was formed. However I am unsure whether most people call it Harringay rather than Harringay Green Lanes. When describing to people where I live, people are more responsive, and is more descripive to Harringay Green Lanes rather than just Harringay, of which you have to explain to them the difference between the borough and the town.
I would say that most people in the borough and definately London don't know the difference between Haringey and Harringay so can understand why you would want to differentiate the two with the addition of Green Lanes. Some anarchists already delete the Green Lanes bit from various official markings : )
I have also got many letters addressed as Hornsey as I have always lived in the N8 part of the Ladder. I think we are covered by the Hornsey Postal Depot rather than the Harringay one by the Arena Shopping Centre. Still bloody Harringay though.
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Permalink Reply by Tim Caines on
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Are we not taking all this too seriously? I think Justin has a point as we all belong in Tottenham as that is our constituency.
We are all entitled to claim the name of where we live - to be honest though, what is in a name? Communities are defined by themselves and not by their name generally-speaking!
Let's get on with enjoying our weekend and look forward to the real debate being had on the future of this country next week in Manchester.
Best wishes to all.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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No we are NOT taking this all too seriously.
Asking "our representatives" to do this one thing for us that costs them nothing is an indicator of how they are really thinking when we ask for new A&E departments, footpath resurfacing and W1 busses but are told that there is no money to pay for it.
Understand?
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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"There's no money to pay for it"
Ah, I've heard this marvellous phrase before from the council. When it comes to reviews of CPZ's, Brian (or one of his colleagues) said [the even more bureaucratic variant:] "there no money in the budget for this".
There's money in the budget for £800,000 for lawyers to try to sell Alexandra Palace. There's money in the budget for £200,000 for a PR firm for the same purpose (every penny and more, wasted). There's heaps of money in the budget for the propagandist Haringey People magazine.
There's always money in the budget for what the council wants to do and never money in the budget for anything it doesn't want to do.
This phrase ranks amongst the council's most odious and it would be nice if they'd stop using it and speak more candidly.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Fair point Clive. And credit to you for taking the trouble to plough through the often lengthy and convoluted Ally Pally documents and keep raising important questions.
It's also true that decisions about public funds and assets always involve choices. But even when we agree about what were bad decisions in the past, we can't unspend , for example, the money misspent at Ally Pally. Though we can acknowledge and learn from mistakes. (Though this is very unlikely in some cases.)
However this thread relates to the-naming-of-names and people's sense of place. Which in turn, is linked to feelings of neighbourliness and belonging (or not); with perhaps wider issues such Civic Pride and shared ownership of public spaces.
All of these have enormous practical implications. As in the short film 'Uncle David' blogged by Liz. About a man trying to get people to join him in respecting and caring for 'their' park.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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Justin, I fail to see what is partisan about this post.
Knowing Hugh's very strong views on this subject (the link isn't the one I was looking for where he rails against a councillor about trying to rebrand this area Green Lanes but you get the idea), he would have posted this tweet if it had come from any of our tweetin' councillors or indeed wannabe councillors and would have been as strong in his condemnation.
You tweet as the Tottenham Tories, hence the title of the post.
Perhaps, if you are expressing personal opinions you should change your tweet persona and become that of your blog which claims to be a purely personal view? Otherwise people are surely justified in assuming you are expressing the views of "local tories" and are equally justified in challenging them about it in open forum.
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I'm amazed that this discussion is ongoing.
I repeat my previous comments on this. It's all too easy for the majority to criticise the Conservatives - especially when they feel threatened by our relevance to people's feelings in this country.
This is a very unproductive thread of conversation on this website and it's sad that I have had to say something to try and convince others that there are better and more useful things to talk about!
I'll change the subject then. Why are the pavements so littered all of the time? What are our local Councillors doing about it? Why is Council Tax being wasted and why do people always react negatively when I tell them my Council is Haringey? These are real issues that need discussion. Not whether a place has one name or another!
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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Come off it Tim. A name means everything.. - or shall I start calling you Tom or Bim? Or perhaps you should tell your party friends in the Royal Borough of K & C that they now live in Clapham, Battersea, Wandsworth, Fulham or whatever..
This is a real issue .. talking to people - not over their heads
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I would not be bothered what I was called as long as people knew I was talking sense...
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Fine by me Tom.
Do you understand my point? I don't think you do. Please come to the HoL drinks on the 21st and I can explain. In return you can teach me how to come across as patronising and controlling in an internets forum.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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In my experience, Tum, when trying to get votes understanding and empathy can count as much as sense.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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It's not an issue that merits this amount of discussion. If the voter lives west of St Anns Hospital she's most likely entitled to say she's in Harringay. And so what ?
But Justin - " many residents -- either out of sheer ignorance or snootiness-- say they're in Hornsey. Their MP, even, is Lynne Featherstone " I live in the N8 part of Harringay, therefore in Hornsey and as far as I know, my MP is David Lammy. Maybe this confusion is the reason we never receive Conservative literature and I never get a reply to my attempts to communicate with the Party ?
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