Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Cash for scrap metal to be banned
The home secretary has said the government will seek to ban cash transactions for scrap metal and increase fines for trading stolen material.
In a written statement to Parliament, Theresa May said the changes to the law are the “only sustainable, long-term solution to the growing menace of metal theft. There is an urgent need to make stealing metal less attractive to criminals, and tackling the stolen metal market will act as a significant deterrent”.
She said cash payments mean “anonymous, low-risk transactions” for thieves and facilitates “poor record keeping by the metal recycling industry and can support tax evasion”.
Tags for Forum Posts: metal theft
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on
-
Nice one, Theresa. With the same kind of reasoning you could probably abolish people trafficking, kerb crawling, the brothel trade, pushers, the porn industry, international drug trade, brown envelope manufacture, and countless other aspects of the informal economy overnight. Oh sorry, Tories don't raid our bins or asset strip the railways.
-
Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
-
I think this is to be welcomed, indeed anything that might reduce metal theft. This is reason why so many of Virgin Media's roadside cabinets are without covers and are open to the elements ... or mischief.
This can be a dodgy trade. I sold a load of scrap a couple of years ago in NZ (all legit!) and was astonished at the huge piles of scrap, waiting shipment to China or Japan.
I sold for cash, but the company did want a fair amount of ID.
I remember that the way they assessed the value was by weighing your car or trailer as you went in, you unloaded further on, then come round a second time for another weighing. The difference in weight is taken to be the weight of the ferrous metal to be paid for (other metals like aluminium are significantly more valuable).
I overheard one of the staff in the office saying to another, on seeing a car with several yoof on board "I count two, no three of them." If it was three, a scam would have been for two of them to disembark further along in the process and for the metal company to have paid out for the weight of metals ... plus about another 150 kilos worth of soft pink 'metal' on legs. The company obviously had been subject to this ruse.
-
-
Eddie I take your point about the focus on cash, but there's a key difference between scrap metal dealers and other aspects of the "informal economy" that use cash.
Scrap metal dealers operate from large fixed premises for the long term. Their trade is in material that is heavy.
Having witnessed at first hand the enormous piles of scrap metal at Macaulay Metals (Petone, NZ), I can attest to the fact that perforce, these operations cannot fly-by-night.
The examples of cash enterprises you gave are harder to pin down!
-
Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
-
This was a real problem I noticed when I went to visit my Ma in Sunderland before Christmas. They steal the cast iron gully gratings. It usually happens at night so you end up with a combination of huge, deep holes just where you step off the curb and lack of light to see them. The council responded by spraying them shocking pink so they should be obvious to dealers, but this still doesn't seem to stop the trade.
-
Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
-
Thanks for flagging this up, Liz. (Though your link takes us to a paid subscriber page. Here's another which is free.)
I've seen news items for months about these thefts which seem to be hitting countries across the globe. (Adding to Michael Anderson's Sunderland example, other English councils affected include Selby in Yorkshire and Worcestershire.
The Worcestershire example is interesting as it highlights dangers to pedestrians and cyclists - also mentioned by Michael. And because "Lord" Faulkner of Worcester's Private Members' Bill led to Theresa May's amendment.
Can I make an appeal to all HoL members to urgently report metal thefts which are a potential danger to life and limb. The obvious ones are where drain gully covers and utility covers have been stolen. Please don't wait until a child or elderly person is seriously injured.
You can contact the Council:
Online: Report a problem page
Email: frontline@haringey.gov.uk
phone: 020 8489 1335It's also worth having a hard look at what's in your front garden. I was told about someone who chased off thieves trying to steal metal benches. They came back later and took them!
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
-
Permalink Reply by pamish on
-
And Ambridge. Their phones and therefore interwebs, were down for a week.
-
Permalink Reply by Liz on
-
Thanks Alan. Didn't realise I could only see that page because I came to it via the LCRN which sends out a useful newsletter every week. Have changed the link to yours.
-
-
We provide a Scrap Metal software solution called ScrapIT Software (www.scrapitsoftware.com)
It helps give scrap yards a lot of transparency and provide evidence for local police to aid in scrap metal theft.
Everything from cameras to signatures and all points in between. The best solution to Scrap Metal theft is to work with the scrap yards and allow them to use the tools. Remove cash isn't the answer it just hurts local businesses and the staff they employ.
-
-
Lorne removing cash may not be the complete answer, but I would have thought that it's likely to be part of the answer to this big problem. If legitimate sellers of scrap metal are still receiving payment in another form, why should that affect local businesses and the staff they employ?
Surely you're not advocating cash to criminals in order that they can spend it locally?
I'd be curious to see what you're selling, but the link you gave leads to a blank page. Maybe whatever it is you are promoting could be part of the solution, but I can't tell yet.
-
-
Clive, a lot of those who deal in scrap are going to be very small businesses. Surely giving them options is a good thing?
-
-
Of course not. However, all this will do is push the industry more underground but will not stop the problem.
A much better solution would be to blacklist people (via name, drivers license) and let them proceed selling their Scrap. When they are scanned, they will be blocked from actually being allowed to complete the transaction but in that process you now have photographic evidence of the material, drivers license scan, etc. all the way through.
Scrap is a unique industry and one that still likes to run on cash regardless of legislation. It would be better to allow a yard to collect evidence and provide an electronic record of the transaction as proof for the police.I can provide just as good reporting and audit with an automatic cash dispenser as I can with Cheque/Wire, etc. As long as the law requires a drivers license and pictures you can keep things flowing without hurting the small guys or the honest cash guys.
I am not sure why scrapitsoftware.com ended up at a blank page, try through our main site at www.iyb.ca.
We deal with a lot of yards in the US and Australia/New Zealand who are also dealing with this, removing cash has always been floated as an option, however we have made local law (and tax organizations) happy with the methods put in place.
© 2024 Created by Hugh.
Powered by
