Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Last chance to Support Living Wightman, go the extra yard & make your mark.
We can't be complacent, many leaflets have been dropped advocating no change, which will be the poorest outcome for residents across the Ladder,
this is the first time our lungs have been considered, don't let Haringey council muddy the water, we need to go for it now.
I'm sure there are other posts on interventions, but this is my reminder.
Living Wightman's link here:
http://www.livingwightman.org/p/faq.html?m=1#faq11
or follow the 10 step guide through below:
Q11: How do I complete the survey to support the filtering of Wightman Road?
https://www.research.net/r/GLATS
Haringey council's engagement survey asks for your opinion on ten different 'Packages' of options, each Package has between 5 and 14 options.
For each option you can click a button to indicate how strongly you support or oppose that option:
In total there are over 70 options across the ten packages, (yes really,)
so allow yourself time if you want to read all the accompanying details & wish to answer every question.
It is possible to simplify the options, if you just want to support Living Wightman's aims.
If all you want to do is indicate support for "Package WL4: Wightman Road Closed (Filtered)",
follow these steps:
• Go to https://www.research.net/r/GLATS and click Next
• Click No to "Would you like to comment on this Package (AW - Area-wide Improvements)" - then click Next
• Also click No & click Next for the next two Packages PC and GL
• Click Yes to comment on Package WL
• For Package WL1, click "I don't know/not applicable" for each option
• Also for Package WL2 and WL3, you can click "I don't know/not applicable" for each option (you can click Oppose to options WL2-01a and WL3-01a if you are against one-way)
• for Package WL4, click "Strongly Support" for all options
• Question 13* is where you can indicate your preferred package as WL4
(note that the question number may be higher than 13 if you clicked Yes to comment on any previous packages.)
• Click No & click Next for the last two Packages HE and SA
• The final question asks for your house number and postcode, this is just to allow the consultants to classify responses according to where they live (and stop the same household responding more than once!)
If you did want to comment on any of the other package options you can click Yes to any Package and then support or oppose the options as you wish. Most of us are strongly opposed to one-way (package WL2 and WL2) and generally support the various area-wide traffic calming and streetscape improvements and cycle schemes.
For Living Wightman the single most important goal is to maximise support for Package WL4 as this is the only option to ensure long-term drastic reduction of traffic on the worst affected Wightman Road.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by JoeW on
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Nick the B-road classification has been discussed several times e.g. here, here and here. Why are you asking the same question over and over again expecting a different answer?
You also missed the point about pavements. The usable width of Wightman's pavements is reduced by pavement parking to significantly less than the 2.0m minimum recommended on page 68 of the government's Manual for Streets:
Once you add in an overgrown hedge, street furniture, bins, and pavement parked cars which frequently encroach on the little bit of pavement left for pedestrians (because the owners want to avoid clipped wingmirrors and other damage caused by the excessive traffic), parts of the footway become quite hazardous for many users:
The traffic stats for Westbury Avenue are in the Existing Conditions document p32. The traffic on Wightman Road (supposedly a B-road but actually functioning as a de facto by-pass for Green Lanes and/or rat-run to avoid GL/Turnpike Lane or GL/Endymion junctions) is 50% higher than Westbury Avenue, which is an A-road which terminates at one of London's busiest transport hub (Turnpike Lane bus and tube station) at the southern end of one of London's Metropolitan District Centres (Wood Green). Shocking isn't it?
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Permalink Reply by Nick on
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I did not miss the point - there is an option to remove the pavement parking in the list of proposals. If you look at Westbury Avenue, there are yellow lines on both sides for most of its length.
The road classification is important because if Wightman is closed, it opens the door for similar measures on other B roads in the area.
Answer this: is Westbury Avenue a residential road?
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I've answered that question several times too Nick. Why are you asking the same question over and over again expecting a different answer?
Westbury Avenue is an A-road with no pavement parking, no parking at all actually - it has double yellow lines mostly.
Why not ban parking on Wightman too, reclassify as an A-road? Because it's a residential street, and using residential streets to increase road capacity just induces more traffic onto the A-roads and makes it even harder for them to fulfil their various functions.
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It looks like it's been to designed to carry high volumes of traffic, so no I doubt anyone would classify that as a residential street.
Answer this: Do you think Wightman Road should carry 50% more traffic than one of the roads in London's Strategic Road Network? (There are four of these controlled by the council in Haringey - A105 Wood Green High Road/Green Lanes, A1080 Westbury Avenue/The Roundway (west), A1010 Tottenham High Road and A1000 Great North Road - plus 2 controlled by TfL - A1 Archway Road and A10 Tottenham High Road).
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JoeW:
"Remember that Wightman is exactly the same width as the rungs, the same residential character, the same distance from your living room window to the traffic outside"
All of these apply to Westbury Avenue.
If Wightman were made an A road, and all parking removed, would it then be 'non-residential'?
Anyway, yes I think everyone can agree that there's excessive traffic on Wightman (although there's very little congestion). You're correct in saying that only option 4 reduces this traffic, however this plan has undesirable knock on effects over a wide area.
It's unfortunate that the planners couldn't come up with any better alternatives. I suspect that Haringey have their own plans which they will implement regardless of the consultation result.
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The FAQ on the Living Wightman site is simplified, TfL actually use a 3X3 matrix to classify roads:
The same point applies though - people can and do live on all those road types, but that doesn't make them all "residential streets". See the "London's Street Family" documents on this page
So yes if Wightman were made an A-road, it would be because it needed to serve other purposes than being a "quiet, safe and desirable residential area that fosters community spirit and pride":
Westbury Avenue is a "connector", part of the Strategic Road Network joining the A10 with Green Lanes. Wightman Road is supposed to be a "local street", but massively dysfunctional and carrying a shocking amount of excessive traffic since the road layout of the ladder makes it a rat-runners paradise. Note that "rat run" is not one of the 9 road types in the above matrix!
The only solution which will reduce that excessive traffic is filtering. That did have some undesirable effects during the bridgeworks last year, partly because of initial bad signage (and the fact that the majority of traffic is through-traffic so were unaware of the change), partly because of the partial closure of the GOBLIN and other roadworks like Stroud Green Road, and partly because there were minimal mitigation measures in place on the surrounding roads such as adjusting traffic light phases or altering bus lanes etc.
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Permalink Reply by matthew cuthbert on
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No no go roads for two wheels
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Permalink Reply by andy h on
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Hi John,
I call where I live Woodlands Park.
Having asked, as you'll know, on a number of occasions about Mitigating Measures. Living Wightman don't seem to have a very comprehensive idea of what those should be.
They've mentioned re-phasing traffic lights on Turnpike Lane and bus lanes on green lanes but ,unless I've missed something, as yet nothing about the B153, Blackboy, Harringay Road, Langham Road, Downhils park road, Belmont, Ferme park road and the additional traffic at the top end of West Green that will be created. I've agreed that Wightman needs help.
But
if you close Wightman the aftermath cannot just be swept under the carpet with a blith 'Mitigating Measures' at the end of a mission statement. It all has to be thought about and costed in with the 'Closure' LW advocate. It all must be implemented at the same time as part of the same project out of the same budget, otherwise you'll just do the same as the gardens - 'I'm alright, you lot look after yourselves
Hope you noticed I didn't mention my road, I'm going to try and keep it open for when you need to use it. Ambulance, bin lorry, Amazon etc.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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"you'll just do the same as the gardens - 'I'm alright, you lot look after yourselves" - I very much admire the that way that, on the whole, the ladder has stuck together. It would have been more than possible to block off the rung roads where they meet Green Lanes (as is usually done with main roads) and to have left Wightman to its own devices.
I would not normally be advocating for the removal of through traffic completely as I appreciate that there will be unsatisfactory knock on effects, however nothing else will have any effect on the ladder's traffic problem.
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