Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Harringay (Green lanes Area) Transport Study
A letter just dropped through y door asking for feedback. Here is mine:
"I hope the council considers the permanent closure of Wightman Road. Gradually commuters and long-distance drivers are realising they need to either use alternative main roads, or switch to public transport or cycling. The study shows that residents overwhelmingly do not own a car (61%), and prefer public transport, walking or cycling for their commute (82%)."
Tags for Forum Posts: harringay traffic study, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by JoeW on
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Pat "That's why I'm in favour of a one-way system for the Gardens."
Do you have a particular plan in mind? Maybe alternate eastbound/westbound roads like the ladder rungs?
I believe the rising bollard at the end of Warwick Gardens was installed in 2001, so perhaps nearing the end of its useful life. It cost £50K to install and still costs the council £2-3K per year to maintain. It seems quite possible the council won't replace it so time to start thinking about alternative solutions.
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Nick, I think the reason we're struggling to agree on solutions is because we don't agree on the problem.
I think it is inequitable that the average Ladder rung has twice as much traffic as the average Gardens road. It is inequitable that the busiest Ladder rung has five times the traffic of the quietest rung. It is absurd that Wightman should be expected to carry more traffic than several local bus routes - Turnpike Lane and West Green Road which are both A-roads, and the western end of St Anns Road which is a B-road but significantly wider than Wightman.
The traffic needs to be rationalised. First, force traffic wherever possible to use A-roads, by introducing one-way systems and/or cul-de-sacs on the residential sidestreets. If you don't do this first, it's unlikely any further solutions will be effective as traffic will just find different routes. Once you know the exact shape and size of the problem you can devise solutions to improve the flow - adjust traffic light phases, re-locate busstops, restructure junctions, alter parking restrictions, find ways to minimise other turning movements which cause traffic to slow down and stop. Then if there is still a problem, identify a level of congestion charging and maybe other sticks and carrots to change behaviour and reduce traffic to an acceptable level.
As you say, Sainsburys will become housing - plus new retail or restaurants on the street. Harringay will still be an important dining out and shopping centre even without Sainsburys. A new Sainsburys is opening in Hornsey, so we will likely get through traffic to that. There are at least five major new housing developments planned locally - St Anns, Hawes and Curtis, Jewsons, Hornsey rail station, and Haringey Heartlands. Even if these are all "no car" developments, it will add at least some car and van journeys and our new neighbours will still need reliable bus services and safe cycle routes.
Your solution - to make Warham oneway eastbound and hoping for the best if Wightman is reopened - does not even scratch the surface of the current and looming crisis.
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Permalink Reply by matthew cuthbert on
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With improvements at Hornsey and Harringay stations, even more people would chose the train with extra carriages in peak times.
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Permalink Reply by Peter Chalk on
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I agree. Back to your earlier point about red routes, it hasn't harmed Upper Street which is much more like Green Lanes is becoming. Dalston too is on a red route.
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Permalink Reply by Pat on
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Upper Street has a much wider choice of shops and restaurants, hence the wider demographic in terms of visitors. Green Lanes is very much a hub for the Turkish community, similar to the way Oriental City in Cricklewood used to be a hub for the Chinese community until the developers closed it down.
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Permalink Reply by Antoinette on
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I don't really see what the demographics of the shoppers has to do with it.
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Really you want to emulate that. Upper street is very wide in parts, with angled parking, they finally got rid of the barriers preventing pedestrians crossing, a red route would only promote a hostile environment for shoppers.
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Could you please explain a bit more about what you mean by a hostile environment for shoppers? I always find Green Lanes to be quite shopper friendly, with all the crossings and the easy bus/train access. Apart from the fumes from the traffic jams, of course. If parking on Green Lanes could be replaced on surrounding roads to make way for red routes it seems like improved traffic flow would only make it less hostile. But maybe I've got completely the wrong end of the stick?
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That is your experience as a public transport user. I take the bus to work or run, and take the bus into town for shopping, cinema etc. But many people don't, especially if there is no direct public transport. At the weekends my street in the Gardens is a popular parking area with families visiting the very popular restaurants. I would hazard a guess that removing parking on GL would increase the demand for parking in the Gardens and the bottom half of the Ladder roads near the Parade. From my very unscientific and non-rigorous survey yesterday, I don't think there would be much space on the Ladder roads for extra parking as the streets were nose-to-tail with parked cars all the way up to Wightman.
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Hey Pat, usually I'm walking or stopping off while driving back to my flat.
I think we agree in some respects - obviously removing parking on GL would mean a need for more pay-and-display parking in surrounding areas. But there's no reason why that can't be spread out along Wightman Rd as well as ladder roads. It's only a couple of minutes walk. Regulations could be extended to ensure that visitors used pay-and-display bays rather than just taking up residents spots at the bottom of the ladder roads and in the Gardens.
I'm still at a loss re: hostile environment for shoppers. Parking up the road and needing to cross at the Pelican is marginally inconvenient, not hostile. And they would deliver such tangible benefits in terms of traffic and air quality.
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Except people are really lazy judging from the way they park, i.e., as close to Green Lanes as possible. On my street there are always one or two spaces near the top end away from Green Lanes at the weekends but parking near my house (which is nearer the Green Lanes end) if I go away for the weekend is nigh on impossible, which can be a pain when you need to unpack a load of camping gear or my mother has loaded me down with noodles.
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Completely agree (and feel your pain, have done plenty of mega-unloading from a distance/over the road) - but if you extended the hours of operation for permit only parking (with a CPZ for example) visitors wouldn't be able to use Residents only bays on the times and days you currently can (i.e. evenings and Sundays). As residents mostly prefer to park outside their houses you'd have more chance of getting a spot.
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