Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Haringey Obesity Conference
Anyone know someone attending this event today 25th June 9.30 am - 3:15pm - at the Spurs UTC in Northumberland Park?
I'd have liked to go but only just found out, and booking had to be by 16th June.
Absurdly, a participant in the conference is "Chicken Town" the favoured business getting a large grant to open a fast food business on Tottenham Green.
However there are other speakers.
I'd like to read some independent "reviews" of the day from HoL members. (No Council sock-puppets please.)
Tags for Forum Posts: Chicken Town, conference, obesity
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Grant on
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I'd be interested in hearing a readout of this too. I wonder if any reps of active travel advocacy groups were invited? In my opinion too much of the debate around obesity has been focussed on diet (what goes in) rather than activity (what goes out!). Particularly in light of the recent report from UKactive: 'Inactivity has been found by a recent Cambridge University study to be twice as significant an indicator of premature mortality than BMI-judged obesity'
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/jun/18/england-pupils-the...
Of course Haringey Labour committed last year to 'make Haringey’s streets the most pedestrian and cycle friendly in London' but I've seen no progress on this front since and in fact seem to be rapidly falling behind neighbouring boroughs like Waltham Forest who are very serious about normalising active travel:
http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/13342487.Mini_Holland_cycling...
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Apologies, Grant, for not including the Haringey website link which listed the conference participants - with photos and brief pen portraits. The website promises:
"... a mix of exciting speakers including Nicole Pisani previously chef at Nopi, a top London restaurant in Soho and now chef at Gayhurst Community school in Hackney; Paralympic athlete Liz Johnson; and the creators of Chicken Town".
It will be:
"showcasing a number of innovative national and local campaigns and projects; and workshops to capture Haringey’s commitment to working together to reduce obesity."
The programme shown:
10.20am: Leader's remarks and local context
10.30am: Outline of the evidence – Harry Rutter
10.45am: Keynote speaker – Nicole Pisani
11am: Local Context/Plenary
Martin Caraher
Healthy Schools – Earlsmead School
Local weight loss case study
11.45am: 1st Parallel session – Market stalls and Workshops
1.30pm: 2nd Parallel Session – Market Stalls and Workshops
2.20pm: Delivery Plan Pledges
2.50pm: Feedback from the facilitators
3pm: Sports person – Liz Johnson
3.10pm: Closing remarksThe website also states - presumably aiming to reach residents of the borough as a whole: "We feel you are a key stakeholder in forming a united approach to reduce obesity in Haringey."
The website tells us that:
"The purpose of the conference is to gain a broader understanding of the challenges and difficulties people face in maintaining a healthy weight, and co-producing solutions with all stakeholders".
Which co-production, to me, didn't quite tie in with having an already prepared Delivery Plan including "pledges". But as I haven't yet seen either, my small quibble on this may be unfair.
Hopefully all the conference expert speakers (in other words, not the politicians) will be recorded or even videoed in full; and we'll have the chance to learn from and assess the event for ourselves.
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On a slightly different tack, have you seen or read the book "Happy City" by Charles Montgomery? I'm dipping into it with delight and will make time to read it through. There was an excerpt in the Guardian in November 2013 which you can read here.
(If people feel like supporting our local bookshop, phone 020 8881 6767 and order it from the Big Green Bookshop in Wood Green. They'll normally get it for you by the next day. And do mention this website.)
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Thanks Alan
That book sounds good. It reminded me of a TED talk by Enrique Penalosa's brother that's well worth a watch. This quote in particular struck a chord: 'What is the role of our streets? Are we building streets for cars or people?'. From all the evidence Haringey Highways seem determined to continue to prioritise the movement of motor vehicles through the borough. There seems to be a disconnect between stated ambitions around walking, cycling and obesity reduction and the willingness of the highways dept to change the way they do things and truly prioritise obesity-reducing (and pollution-reducing, community-enhancing, etc.) active travel.
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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seem determined to continue to prioritise the movement of motor vehicles through the borough
Yes – there are intersections that have the look and feel of a motorway junction in what is essentially a suburban setting. Too much land taken up, too much pandering to the motorist and encouraging too much speed.
Some of the moves of the Council to encourage cycling are good; however the conditions on the ground are still decidedly anti-cylist.
Possibly the best example of the lack of care and attention – and not taking cycling seriously – are the joke-cycle lanes outside Costa, on the corner of Stroud Green Road (A1201) and Woodstock Road (N4).
Someone at Highways (or "Sustainable Transport" in the department of Place and Sustainability) … was having a laugh.
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Hi Clive. The recently consulted upon 'Cycle Superhighway' plans for Tottenham are in my opinion the best example of continuing to view roads and streets only from the viewpoint of behind a windscreen. This was an opportunity to produce a truly world-class facility suitable for use by anyone (not just 'cyclists') with the potential to massively improve local streets for everyone. However the Haringey section is such a dogs breakfast of inadequacy I confidently predict what is going to be built will not produce a meaningful increase in cycling levels. Some of the provisions will actually increase danger for people on bikes and foot. What sane person would think putting a cycle track right by a tube station exit is a good idea (even Haringey Council themselves opposed this bit!)? Several local groups' opposition to the inadequacy of these plans was of course ignored.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Why is Chicken Town an absurd participant Alan? From the website below their aims seem admirable.
http://createlondon.org/event/chicken-town/
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The absurdity. Michael, is including and - in effect - showcasing a project which hasn't even begun, let alone been independently and carefully tested and evaluated.
On their website Chicken Town's aims are presented as givens.
"As well as encouraging healthy eating . . . ."
Will it do this? How will this be measured? When and by whom?
". . . in the area" .
Which area? The streets around Tottenham Green? At the College? In the whole of Tottenham? I'm unsure how this will work. "Tottenham" as I've often said, is not just the High Road and Tottenham Hale Station. Much though the "Regeneration" team and the developers appear to believe this nonsense.
"... our new social enterprise will give young people in Tottenham the opportunity to get training, mentoring and real job prospects."
Sounds good? But again the devil is in the detail. And in the evaluation. And, it seems to me, in a far wider overview of how and what people eat and cook. And how work experience in catering jobs may or may not lead to "real job prospects". With real wages and not simply minimum wage jobs.
"Opening in Tottenham Green in September 2015,
Again it's assumed as a 'given'. In fact, Chicken Town don't yet have planning permission to open these premises. And some local people have put in objections.
Or have they assumed - or perhaps been given the nod - that this will happen? After all, the Council have allocated £250k for this business.
Then there's a question of fairness and a level playing field with other local businesses in the area? Businesses which do have planning permission. Who have put in their own money and hard work to establish and run their businesses. Are they unworthy of Council interest and generous public subsidy? Were any of them invited to the conference - however healthy and sustainable their food may be?
"Chicken Town will serve the whole community from healthy family meal deals to an evening destination restaurant . . ."
Which, I imagine, may the aim and ambitions of any number of existing local restaurants. Which we visit and enjoy. (Though only occasionally, not being that well off.) And good luck to all of them. But why select one for favoured treatment?
Surely it would be far better to discuss "healthy option" menu items with as many restaurant proprietors as will listen? I'm sure that for a quarter of a million they'd be happy to try.
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Well I suppose there is another option which is to try nothing. We know that despite best efforts (the example of Waltham Forest who tried to stop the opening of chicken shops within a certain radius of schools) many kids want to eat this kind of food. I see them, as I'm sure you do, every day piling into Dixy this and Southern Fried that despite the healthy alternatives offered in schools. I see this as an attempt to provide an a new way of approaching the issue and I can't see how you think it is one favoured treatment given the other work going on in schools around healthy eating. Perhaps after eating food like this the same kids will realise what crap they've been consuming.
I suppose that funding and crowd sourcing of money has come about because few if any purely commercial enterprises would risk their money on something which is essentially an experiment.
On your finally point on discussing healthy options menus with outlets, I know the authority I used to work for did precisely this with outlets close to schools and helped them promote healthier options in their shops. The kids still bought chicken and chips.
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I'm not suggesting we do nothing. And in any case as I'm sure you know, the issue is far more than overweight kids. Again as you'll know, locally we have very serious problems of high blood pressure, diabetes and other diet linked ill-health. Often more prevalent among the black community.
As I'm sure you've also realised, Michael, your examples argue against your own case.
In the famous example from the book "Nudge", in the student cafeteria, redesigning the layout may have got students to walk near the salad bar. There was no guarantee it would get them eating it.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be experiments. But perhaps it's a good idea to learn from and base public health interventions on experiments which worked. Rather than risk a large chunk of dosh -at a time of brutal cuts - subsidising someone's untested experiment. Which may even put other unsubsidised local traders out of business.
Anyway, why not wait to see what the experts at the conference had to say? If indeed there is a proper and full record made available and we are able to find out.
It will be especially interesting to see if they discussed the points in the article linked to by Grant - about fitness and inactivity being serious issues which we shouldn't view simply through the lens of obesity.
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Alan, I am also keen to see what is said at the conference but unlike you I did not decide to be dismissive about a participant before they had even contributed. If the experiment is successful it will mean some local businesses going out of business as trade falls. Either that or kids keep eating saturated fat chicken. You can't have it both ways I'm afraid.
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Sorry, I missed the bit about my examples going against my argument. They don't. There has to be an acceptance that kids eat this stuff because they want to and because they like it. What this enterprise aims to do is to supply the fried chicken that kids seem to want but to make sure that what is supplied is as healthy and as low in fat as possible (by pre-steaming the chicken for example so it spends less time in a fat fryer) and to make the price competitive with other outlets, subsiding the price from evening diners I think.
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http://https://haringeycyclingleague.wordpress.com/
Secondary schools have a cashless catering system so kids can only buy chicken & chips after school if their parents/carers are giving them money (or they are using their own pocket money). Having said that, I did see an ad board outside a fried chicken shop near my child's school which said 'After school special - chicken & chips now £1'
And going back to Grant's point re cycling. A few local schools are part of Haringey Schools Cycling League. It is very popular at NHP and is run by a group of very enthusiastic staff and parent volunteers (as I'm sure is the case with the other participating schools) and it would be great if more schools signed up.
(sorry, the link has ended up at the top of my post!)
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