Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
We need a Traffic and Parking Review in Harringay
Harringay desperately needs a traffic and parking review, we have got to the stage that the amount of traffic coming down the ladder roads really needs to be dealt with. I will be writing to officers and the lead member because we can no longer I believe sustain this inequitable distribution of traffic in the area.
This morning on my way to work I witnessed some amazing community action and spirit from businesses on Green Lanes. An elderly man was hit by a car turning right out of Pemberton Rd. Whilst I didn't see the accident I did see the shop owners come out and one young woman from the jewellers recorded the driver who we initially thought had abandoned his car and fled the scene. The driver did come back as he had gone to get help, however the locals were not taking any chances. I looked like a leg injury and the police assured me he would be ok, however it could have been far worse.
I am receiving emails from residents angry at the level of traffic coming down their roads which is impacting on their houses and quality of lives. I would really be interested to hear more residents views on the issue.
Emine
Harringay Ward Councillor
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Richard Hulbert on
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Hi Gordon
I guess the issue with the Gardens is that it is 'unfair' in that other roads can't protect themselves in the same way but yes indeed if it is horrible to go by car, people wont.
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Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on
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We all want to live on nice quiet roads where we can park our car outside our houses . . .
No, Richard, we all certainly do not.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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New registrations is not car ownership. Car ownership is falling. New registrations had a blip up recently when the government started restricting mortgage availability and people thought "bugger it, I'll get a new car".
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Thanks Emina
this is something which requires action. I would imagine most people a) agree with the problem but ironically b) have a car. Therein lies the problem - with the best will in the world, the council does not spend money wisely on measures to reduce traffic. It doesn't. Car use is up. And keeps rising. Cycling is becoming more of an extreme sport. All we get is sound bites about cycle racks and pointless green lane painting. Walks to school are through dog-poo lined parks and streets filled with the smoke of commuters.
So people are virtually cajooled into using cars and lorries in this area through poor highway design and a complete lack of incentives and disincentives for alternatives. There a complete lack of evidence-based policy making.
I must admit I don't get involved in either politics or local consultations as I don't see the results are reflected. The process of consultation is not designed for interaction - it's designed for the path of least resistance.
Anyway, enough about problems...apologies for my whinging and thanks for bringing this up
As for solutions, well I go contrary to some of the naysayers I read. There is always a solution. Always. The proof of a politicianis whether or not they have the wherewithall to solve problems. I see very few that do. I find that in LAs that is also an issue with the underlying structure that essentially makes the decisions through reports that are signed off. Hence my cynicism.
In this case, the solution lies twofold:-
1) Why are people using this area for these reasons? It's obviously easier than the alternative, which is a traffic planning issue.
2) What can be done to make this area a disincentive to travel? Can traffic levels be reduced, how can routes be changed, where are people going to and from?
What LAs often forget is bans only become cost-effective when policed (i.e. parking) which in turn carries political risk. Therefore the bans mentioned will only become 'real' when they are enforced and policed. I see no evidence of this (like with dog fouling, littering and so on). Just telling people not to do something doesn't change behaviour. I am in now way saying we should be policing such issues (being quite a liberal person!). I am saying there have to be policies based on evidence. Understanding the problem objectively is paramount. So many times we are wrong when we know the truth.
I suggest a data collection excercise (linked with perhaps UCL/London Unis) to examine patterns. You cannot manage what you cant measure. Once we all understand the how and why through fact rather than theory, then good action can be taken.
Secondly, I think tried and tested methods - such as Chicanes - are a great idea to test and perhaps should be piloted on the worst streets and compared. Justin is right about the other effects they have (improved biodiversity for example). Zebra crossings at pedestrian points help also.
I hope you find this useful
Have a happy festive period and New Year
I'm back to crawl under my rock!
Daniel
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Let's look at this another way. Are cars, trucks and vans the problem? Isn't the problem other people's cars and trucks and vans? Except of course other people's cars giving us lifts. Or trucks that collect our waste and recycling. Or pump out the gunge from the drain gullies in our street. Or are ambulances and fire engines when we need them. Or vans which bring people with know-how and equipment to fix our boiler.
However, it's not just basic services. I enjoy walking. But armchairs on wheels are also a pleasure. The carchair variety lets you play the music you like. Railchairs let you read or nap or have a coffee. I was grateful to the Government for their decision to move the Eurostar terminal to Kings Cross. (I guess this was as close as they could feasibly get to our house.) So occasionally, fast Eurochairs take us to visit relatives in Brussels.
Cars let us go to places I prefer to avoid walking through at night. My wife Zena avoids a few more. I don't have a car; but Zena does and when she passed her English driving test she said it gave her freedom. In fact there are places I regard as completely safe in broad daylight where she feels uncomfortable. So it seems, do many other women we know. And maybe more older people. And many younger people.
I think it's important to ask and listen to how safe and relaxed different people feel in particular streets and the neighbourhood where they live or study or work. For example Professor Les Back was part of a research team which looked at the perceptions of safety and danger among two groups of 13 & 14 young olds in Docklands districts. Will those young people see it as a priority to buy cars if and when they can?
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Alan, I don't think that local trips are the main contributor to the problem. The cars that go up my street in the morning and evening rush hours are on their way to somewhere via here. A decent traffic survey may show many vehicles pass through the area rather than start or end their journey here.
As the traffic on Wightman has been held up by utility works for the past week or so, it has been by pleasure on several occasions to walk alongside a crawling car for much of the length of the road and then watch it turn east on Endymion for Manor House and all points south or west for Finsbury Park and the west end. Making this area less attractive to drive through may have the consequence of making it less congested to drive within or, God forbid, get a bus through.
I have no quarrel with those who need to drive because other means of getting around cause difficulties for them or because of their worries about personal safety. The drivers I see on my morning and evening walks seem on the whole to be business suited and experts at driving while playing Candy Crush to alleviate the boredom of their daily commute.
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Hi Michael
My view is that on the whole, like you and me, these people (even the suited and booted) are rational. They are making what they feel is the best choice for them and this sometimes involves driving past your house. Now the problem is that in order to stop or at least reduce this you are going to have to persuade those people to drive down another road, past someone else's house.
Unless of course you can convince them that they should leave their car at home. That might need more than a few bollards and no right turns.
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Of course they are making a choice Richard and to some extent that choice is forced upon them. As I sit typing this in my home on the narrow residential road I live in there is a constant stream of cars going by at 5pm. It started at around 4 and will go on until about 7. The choice that has been forced upon them is to avoid Green Lanes as they will sit there going nowhere. I know that they don't choose to annoy people living on this road or any other residential street they go along.
The alternative is to drive where it causes the least disturbance and, locally, that is Green Lanes which is wide and built for a greater volume of traffic. Getting Green Lanes moving will make it more attractive to use and lessen the need to use residential side roads and a start would be to stop any vehicles parking on it so it becomes what it was build as, two lanes in each direction.
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My guess would be that any improvement you made in terms of traffic flow on Green Lanes would have at best a temporary effect on the traffic going past your house. We live at the mouth of a funnel the edges of which are the rail lines and Finsbury Park. Traffic flows into the funnel as it travels south towards central London and as it narrows so it slows and clogs up.
Personally, as a bus passenger and cyclist I would like the bus lane times lengthened I am not sure it would improve car journey times all that much though. I don't know which road you live on but roads such as Beresford, Hewitt( before their no right turn) and Permberton suffer from people traveling South East ie arriving at the 'mouth of the funnel' at the Junction of Whiteman and Turnpike Lane for those people the choice they are making is effectively cutting a corner (turning right onto Green lanes at TPL) that is usually pretty dire. All this makes me sound like I am not sympathetic - I really am. Maybe we should only allow horse drawn vehicles and trams - that was what GL was built for!
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I'm on Warham and in a box somewhere have a photograph of the milk being delivered by horse and cart on my street, so not that far fetched Richard!
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Lovely I would love to see that.
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This is a really good point Richard. Calming measures on green lanes will surely have an effect on motion in the ladder and wightman road.
My subjective opinion is that many unnecessary journeys are composed of single car users. This mode of transport is easy. People love being surrounded in a personalised heated/cooled space. They can listen to their own music, etc etc. However this form of travel is incentivised to win votes. The irony being that as it is a norm, anything contrary to it (And the harm it causes) is unusual, whacky and anti-business.
The council and GLA 'simply' need to do more to incentivise people out of cars. This means understanding the choice framework. Campaigns such as 'smarter travel' have good intentions but is based on attitude and not behaviour and what actually changes behaviour. Thus a waste of money.
Other annoying transport - lorries and the like require policing. Much in the same way as parking. It's as simple as. I do not see any other way. Could bring in some revenue for the council!
Of course there will be a need for ambulances, refuse and post (etc) on any road, anywhere in the UK - town or country, but these are exceptions to a contractor getting to work quicker.
This could go on...
my conclusion is a) Emina has been courageous to bring this up b) I personally don't have faith in the council to make the right decisions. Drivers are the most important.
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