Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Dear local election candidates - my bucket list
I've been reading the various posts and leaflets from the parties standing candidates in Harringay ward and have come to conclusion that what I want (my personal preference) is as follows
As it's inevitable that Labour will be in the majority (please don't try to deny that candidates, you know it's the case) an effective opposition that really hold the Cabinet to account for their actions and promises.
Local candidates of any party who make realistic commitments to local people about local issues, not national ones, that they will deliver and if they can't, tell us why and what they are doing about it.
Candidates who don't just materialise at election time and even if they are not elected keep plugging away between elections.
Candidates who respond to questions with answers, not cleverness or rudeness.
Anyone else have a wish list?
Tags for Forum Posts: 2014 elections
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Schmitz on
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Karen has covered the main points which you have very helpfully raised, but I’d like to add one further point and amplify on a couple of others.
You have posed the challenge as to what we would do as opposition councillors in the event of what you consider to be an inevitable Labour majority in the next Council administration.
In her posting here, Karen resisted the temptation to comment on the May result, which of course is entirely a matter for the voters. Because I have somewhat less will power than she does, however, I’d like to make a comment and to say clearly that a Labour majority is by no means assured.
We have an excellent slate of candidates, both in the wards where we elected councillors last time (and remember we elected 23 of them), and also in other wards where we made a strong showing. If these candidates are elected, and they are certainly working extremely hard to that end, then we will take control of the Council.
In 2006 we won two seats in Bounds Green and Noel Park, and although we slipped back in 2010, we are in a much better position there now than we were then. One needs only mention the scandalous neglect of the Council’s properties in the Noel Park estate – a conservation area which could be a jewel in this Borough’s crown – in order to see just how ready residents in these wards are for change.
If the voters in Harringay return Karen and me and if they also elect our truly excellent colleague, Asha, then we need only win these two wards in order to achieve a majority. And if you bear in mind (to give just two examples of nearby Wards) that during the last two elections we have been very much in contention in Woodside and that the Labour party in St. Ann’s is in complete meltdown for reasons I need not repeat, it can be seen that the prospects of a Lib Dem administration are by no means remote.
We are about to publish our manifesto. It is a serious piece of work undertaken for the purpose of answering what we would do if the governance of this Borough were entrusted to us. I hope it will be discussed here and elsewhere.
Perhaps even more important, though, is the fact that if we form the next administration, residents will see far more competent management and far less waste.
We would not, as the previous administration did in the case of Sharon Shoesmith, hold a press conference before a disciplinary hearing, in order to announce that its result was a foregone conclusion – thus leaving the Council open to very substantial damages.
We would not spend Council taxpayers money on trips to the Riviera, nor would we give the appearance of a loss of impartiality by accepting a subsidy from property developers for such a trip.
We would not upgrade properties which we were about to knock down.
And so on.
How can we promise that? We are a hardworking and inquisitive team that knows how to ask hard questions and to refuse to accept half answers, whether from council officials or anyone else. We will give a clear lead to our often excellent officials in order to enable them to reach their full potential.
Lastly, I’d like to elaborate on Karen’s point about our role in helping residents. Much of our work is done out of the public eye and involves helping people in personal difficulties. It could mean attending at Apex House to help a family which has just been evicted by a landlord, or querying a benefits decision or chasing up road repairs, or asking why a child has yet to get a school place.
It involves being, for the residents here, a face to the faceless bureaucracy. My filling of that role was described (in what is probably the nicest thing that anyone has ever said about me) on HoL here http://www.harringayonline.com/forum/topics/in-praise-of-david-schm...
Whichever way the result may go in May in the Borough at large, I promise that Karen, Asha and I will continue to be a voice for the residents of this Ward and a useful port of call to them whenever they are in difficulty.
David Schmitz
Liberal Democrat Councillor for Harringay Ward
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Permalink Reply by Justin Hinchcliffe on
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Thank you, Michael.
You are, of course, right that Labour is not only set to retain their already iron-grip of the Civic Centre but strengthen it at the expense of the LDs. You have to admire Cllr Schmitz' optimism --but it ain't going to happen.
The LDs succeeded in Haringey, esp in Hornsey and Wood Green, by positioning themselves as being to the left-of-Labour (remember how they hit Roache over top-up fees and the Irag War, to name just two?). At the same time, they managed to convince a huge number of Conservative voters to 'lend' their vote to them to "stop" Labour. Quite clever really, wasn't it?
The last election was inconclusive. They had to take sides with us or Labour. And they would have taken a pasting it they had gone into coalition with Labour, too (remember the vast majority of LibDem MPs represent former Conservative seats). It's their own fault for attempting to out-do us in Conservative-held rural and suburban seats, and out-do Labour in urban ones.
Locally, their councillors have never really risen to the challenge (and paid duty!) of holding this administration to account. Two of their councillors left them to sit as independents and several of them rarely attended meetings, let alone participated in them. To give an example, the last Full Council meeting of Haringey Council, last month, saw two LD councillors missing, two leave early and one vote against her own party's motion. That's not effective opposition, isn't it? A few of their councillors were good - but they've stepped down.
In the most recent set of elections (2012), the Conservatives were 2nd to Labour (Labour won comfortably in all) in the *Tottenham* wards - with the LDs 4th.
So, the real question in these elections is, which candidate/party can best hold Labour to account? The LibDems didn't even try (see the above example of the last Full council meeting).
My advice - and I'm trying to impartial (tricky but possible) - is to look out for literature, challenge and question candidates (do so privately, not on here) and make your decision on the information you have. Be open minded. Don't dismiss any candidate or party. Let the battles begin.
Although I disagree with David wildly optimistic outlook, we ought to thank him, and all the other candidates, who have posted here. it's a pity there isn't a site like this for North Tottenham and Wood Green.
Best wishes.
Justin Hinchcliffe (Conservative/Seven Sisters)
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Justin's advice "and I'm trying to impartial (tricky but possible) - is to look out for literature, challenge and question candidates (do so privately, not on here)" is utter rubbish. If you speak with a candidate about something on the doorstep it is between you and them, they will tote up whether or not they need to pay attention to you according to how many other times they heard it. If you post it on here, as Michael has done, you get a far better response that we can ALL hold them to.
Advice for residents on the doorstep:
DO NOT tell them how you will vote.
DO tell them that you will vote.
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Permalink Reply by Gordon Curtis on
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I think Justin's advice is pretty sound to be fair. If you confront someone in a public space like on this forum, in all likely-hood all you'll receive is a guarded answer, checked and edited and avoiding pitfalls of the more aggressively minded. Nothing like a bit of face-to-face to really get the measure of someone.
Advice for residents on HOL:
Avoid CAPTIALS, theres really no need to shout
Avoid exclamation marks! (especially in multiples!!!!) as you just appear to be foaming at the mouth.
Directing Bold font at an individual is just uncouth and should probably get you sent to the HOL sin-bin.
(Also, remember to include an emoticon if a comment isn't entirely serious
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Gordon, I've put so much personal effort into keeping these politicians honest for my friends and neighbours that when you do something like that I just think what an idiot I have been to have done this. Perhaps I'm being too pofaced about what you have written but I just bet you're a member of the local Labour Party which has cost me (and my neighbours) thousands of pounds in legal fees fighting a harassment order that they issued on me just to stop me giving advice like that.
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No John, I wouldn't say po faced, just a bit rude. It just seemed to me that this thread is about opening a political dialogue, not shutting it down. I'm not entirely convinced that your advice was very helpful or that its very helpful to start throwing (frankly weird) accusations around either.
Michael's asked an interesting question and personally, I'm finding it valuable to hear what the candidates have to say in response to it. Whatever his political party, Justin's been decent enough to offer a response, using "utter rubbish" as your opening gambit wasn't quite in the spirit of Michael's request:
"...not cleverness or rudeness."
I tried to keep it light, sorry you missed it. I'll try again with an emoticon
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Permalink Reply by ant on
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I agree with Johns point and Gordon its sounds like you do too because you say - I'm finding it valuable to hear what the candidates have to say. I've had one candidate come to my door to chat and it did feel like they were trying to say whatever they thought i'd like to hear, i'd much prefer they'd engage in discussion on HoL so we can all hear what they say and have some record of it.
And here's a happy face
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Maybe you're right Ant, but I'm not sure that that means that talking to someone face-to-face is less valuable, or that you should take something as gospel because they've logged it on HOL - just you'd hope, more considered? But as a result possibly less honest.
Its a sign of a bigger problem, that because everything is logged, nothing of much value is actually said for fear of making a publicly recorded ill-judged step (see any number of politicians on Newsnight etc.)
I suppose the main emphasis of the comment was that if you set out your stall to attack, you're likely to stop a discussion rather than eek out a deeper truth, which I think is what John is hoping to do?
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When journalists "doorstep" politicians they are trying to catch them out. The same goes for when politicians doorstep the electorate. They may be busy, have not thought through the issues and are unlikely to give a considered response that will contribute to the vitality of local democracy (Yes crime is bad, yes those Tories are evil etc). Even David Lammy has asked me if I don't have anything better to do with my time than ask him questions when he is out on the doorstep, the subtle implication being that real people are living their lives behind those doors.
Now the situation on here is that the electorate ask the questions when they have considered them, potentially seen others' questions and have the mental space to be as articulate as possible. How on earth can you surmise that the answers given in return are "possibly less honest"? I can see that they might be more guarded but surely that's as it should be too.
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Permalink Reply by Laura on
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I find the online forum an excellent way to help me decide which way to vote. Having had no leaflets or anyone knocking on my door to question directly, it is useful to have some communication.
I also agree that although the answers online are more thought out, that that is surely a good thing- at least we can hold these views to account if they fail to deliver. I am not interested in 'catching someone out' by talking to them face to face, and I also appreciate being able to ponder a question, should I wish to ask it.
Having said all of this, being a St Ann's ward voter, I am concerned that not enough people voting access HOL to inform themselves of the issues. I know many people that have had no idea about the 'troubles'. In this way more leaflets and door to door would certainly make a difference to St Ann's, particularly Lib Dem candidates I suspect! -
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The whole of St Ann's Ward has been delivered by us. That's the problem... political parties do put things out but voters scope everything up that unenveloped (eg. pizzas leaflets and recycle/bin them). To be fair, the Lib Dems and TUSC have also delivered it at least once. Of course we'd all love to envelope stuff, but the costs prohibit us from doing so. Perhaps there is, after all, a case for state funding? Best wishes. Justin --Conservative Agent
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"utter rubbish" - I think you should follow the Tottenham Tories on Twitter, this is standard discourse and you are being over sensitive. That said, I am unhappy that I was a bit OTT and apologise. Fear not Justin and I are more than polite to one another when we meet offline.
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