Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by pamish on April 15, 2014 at 19:10

The Banc?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Leslie on April 15, 2014 at 19:23

think you might have missed the point about locally produced food and drink, not local establishments.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by pamish on April 15, 2014 at 19:31

crossed thread, I was answering WestGreen.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Shez Shez on April 16, 2014 at 18:28

Me too - i'm sure with the right tlc it could be a goer now that there is 2 way traffic

thanks for your comments

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Shez Shez on April 16, 2014 at 18:27

I dont have a problem with it - Im glad of it - so comments were questions really in the light of Tottenham getting gentrified! Thanks for your comments

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by JJ B on April 18, 2014 at 13:23

What is "getting gentrified"? The people in the new Beehive have been living in the area for some time and before went out of it to get decent service.Although there are places here where you get quite decent grub, many are just so shabby! Many have been fighting to preserve the essence of the place too. So I do not think that it is about "gentrification". No one has mentioned San Marco's where the pizzas/food and service are excellent.

Someone shouted at me to say I don't like poor people because I have been saying that we should not be supporting the mediocre shops, service, shop fronts that break planning law, etc. Do 'poor pepole' only deserve shit? and to shop in places that look and feel 'deprived'. What sort of subliminal message is going on?

And that is the whole problem with the regeneration package being proposed. The 'gentrifaication' will happen any way. the Council should be channeling resources to ensure that the least well off are catered for and are able to saty and BENEFIT from the value added it brings with it on a material and social level. Instead we will get displacement and reallocation of resources from the least well of to the much better off. A less equal society leading to increased problems and violence on all levels.

Tottenham has been neglected for decades and the solutions have always been superficial. I don't see anyone 'in charge' proposing real solutions.

But there is a London-wide (if not worldwide) problem where the very rich are pushing property prices to obscene levels and the ripple effect is devastating for the middle and lower income brackets. when they are up against the wall things will 'move'.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Abi on April 18, 2014 at 13:32

Agree with all of the above 100%. Never understood this idea that only the well-off care about such 'frivolous' things as the very environment they live in. One thing I've learned since moving into an apparently deprived area and since getting involved in community stuff is that people from both ends of the spectrum want exactly the same things - and in many parts of Tottenham, that's going to be nicer places to hang out, better shops, prettier buildings etc. It's as simple as that.

And as you say, it's not one thing at the expense of another. If an area is pleasant to live in it will attract people who actually want to be there, and that will improve everything from local health service provision to local pubs. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on April 18, 2014 at 16:14

JJ, there is no "regeneration package being proposed". There is a plan written by a team which met in secret and was led by Tory property developer, "Sir" Stuart Lipton. And now as I gather you learned at the V&A, with the enthusiastic complicity of "Professor" Tony Travers.

What happened was that some of our colonial masters met without us and decided what's good for us. They didn't even have the basic courtesy to make available to us the complete data they used to draw their conclusions. (From what I've read, even the World Bank doesn't operate with this depth of disregard and contempt for the virtual colonies it dictates to.)

But let's look on the bright side. And put aside their basic lack of good manners and lack of any public accountability. Let's assume some degree of good faith and honest intentions among these colonial masters and mistresses. That they feel sorry for us here in Tottenham - or the area the choose to call Tottenham - and that they genuinely and sincerely want to help. And not just to exploit land and other resources we happen to live near. (For example, a river; reservoirs; a regional park; tube and rail lines giving easy access to the City and the West End.) 

Let's assume in sum that they care and are our benefactors. What do benefactors always do?

They bring the solutions and tools they know about and know how to use.

This is sometimes called The law of the instrument, or a golden hammer. Or perhaps more often called  Maslow's hammer from Abraham Maslow the psychologist. Who wrote:    "I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail."

Stuart Lipton's hammer for the "nail" of Tottenham's problems is of course property development.  Just as after the Tottenham riot everyone knew the correct "solution" which generally speaking happened to be the skills and tools they knew about or personally favoured.  For example: mentoring; small business development; more academies; sanctification of headteachers and the search for superheads;  a bigger football stadium; a bigger supermarket; building more tower blocks; reducing business rates; cutting Council Tax.

On the whole these same familiar tools-as-usual won't work to tackle the problems. But they will be tried again in Tottenham because that's what people know; and they are favoured by people with power. 

Different solutions are proposed by others with little or no power. But they are also about relying on same-old-same-old familiar hammer/tools/methods that failed before and will again. Examples include, uncritical support for everything calling itself "the voluntary sector" especially defending community centres; the sanctification of Wards Corner; writing a people's charter; etc.  Warm and comfy. That's the point about comfort blankets.

You write that when people are up against it things will move. Will they, JJ?  Well they certainly moved from 6 August 2011 on.  But hardly anyone in power wanted to learn anything at all, did they?  And why would they?  They kept the power and kept the same hammers as before.

If we want to see change the move has to come in different directions in new ways.

(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jess on April 23, 2014 at 14:24

The Beehive is very welcome - the Sunday roasts are REALLY good!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on April 15, 2014 at 23:51

Thanks Shez Shez for your concern over the large Irish community who used to frequent the Beehive. Now that it has become the Wasps' Nest, the buggers have reinvented themselves as the trendy creative crowd and taken over. Since the Irish have become accustomed to Royal hospitality at Windsor, there's no telling what they'll next morph into - something more British than the Brits, I have no doubt.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by pamish on April 16, 2014 at 0:00

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by BBL on April 16, 2014 at 19:29

Maybe the young, well educated, creative Irish that the papers keep telling us about will frequent it.  There's still the Palmerston on Philip Lane and K K McCools for the rest of us, both of  which I think are fine and, thankfully, not £5 or anywhere near it a pint.

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• 4
• Next ›
• Page