Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Labour Party gave America access to all your personal details in 2007.
This would allow Americans to control the rise and fall of British political hopefuls and commercial interests and effectively play puppet master with our democracy and important industrial secrets.
It's treason if you ask me.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Finsbury Park Ranger on
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I can hear the sound of tumble weed and nothing else ...
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This is a must watch ted talk about privacy and the state ...
http://www.ted.com/talks/mikko_hypponen_how_the_nsa_betrayed_the_wo...
Have labour made any promises to right their wrong they made by giving America these powers under their watch I wonder ?
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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Now steady on FPR! It won't surprise you to learn that I hold no brief for the Labour Party (or New Labour), but it wouldn't have been the Labour Party; I think you meant the Labour Government.
However, even that wouldn't be fair, as it probably wasn't something discussed in Cabinet (the real one, not the local one).
Also, not all 'Merkins want to control the world or believe in conspiracy theories; some are remarkably pleasant!
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Fair point but ... If the people that now support the labour party to get back into power with no promise from those that will be leading it into the next government that they won't change tack, then those voters and that party will then be complicit.
So, personally I can't vote labour until I get a solid promise that labour are not going to act so terribly irresponsibly again, and not sure how anyone else can.
... And from the silence on this thread, they don't seem to be sure themselves.
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Permalink Reply by Chris Setz on
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Your apparent hatred of the Labour Party knows no bounds, it appears, but is it clouding your judgement?
How many more hate-posts about how evil Labour is are you spamming this site with? Do you do it every day or just every week? Does it work? Do people read this and think, yeah, Labour is really evil, must vote Lib Dem?
The issues these press articles raise is not that Labour is evil (I know you long for that to be true, but sorry, all governments are evil and, among them, Labour is the least evil) but that we have a big problem with our infrastructure and openness particularly. The fascinating part is, how secret should we be? Should we employ spies? Should they be allowed to kill? Is industrial espionage allowable? IS it legal, as the NSA claim, to monitor foreign traffic on national soil? Is it OK to benefit from the monitoring of our own native traffic if it comes from our partners? How do we control the spooks?
That is what is worth a debate - do you think for a moment that any previous government would have done anything different? Do you honestly think that the nasty party would have not gone further?
I guess that people do not post here because the obvious hatred and bias makes it off-putting and a complete waster of time to even read, so I hesitate to try to help you to be more successful, but it might help you get a life in other ways, so I will try.
Without being too secretive about it, why not be a little more objective and admit that others may have a different point of view? It will help your cause immensely because otherwise, the stink of bigotry will surely put people off, won't it?
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Permalink Reply by Philip on
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Chris, you are starting to sound like that which you claim to deplore. If FPR has a go at Labour, you are welcome to defend their record. Yes it can sound pessimistic to harp on about negative things, but I think he attacks Labour as the Libdems and Tories are not the repository of hope. You try to divert the arguments into abstract notions of freedom. But we are all free until someone takes our freedom away, and it may be true that Labour at some time in the past may have defended some of those freedoms but now we have to rely on the many other groups and individuals who have taken on that role. I think we need to replace Labour entirely. Many people will still vote Labour but few have any illusions in it anymore.
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Thanks Philip. I really don't think that anyone can seriously individuate Labour for something that would have happened when the Tories were in power, and probably did. What I am saying is that trying to pounce on Labour is a deliberate ploy by people eager to dis Labour as a matter of policy - they think that hating on Labour will cause people to vote Lib Dem in the local elections here. The fact that they do it anonymously makes it worse - is FPR actually Lynne Featherstone?
We're missing the point - the big issues the NSA revelations raise are seismic and not specific to any government - they affect us all. I'm pretty sure that the ConDems are much, much nastier than Labour when it comes to putting people above their own interests, so it you want privacy and freedom preserved, vote Labour :)
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Cheers Chris
I think you have to ask yourself why people didn't vote Labour in the last election. The fact that even after the last Labour govt helped to bring about the financial crisis, bailed out the bankers and started the cuts, the Tories STILL couldnt get a majority. What is sad, is that Miliband continues in the same vein. In his position, a manifesto to regulate the banks, build more public housing, defend the NHS would see him shoot ahead in the polls. The reason he doesn't is something I understand but am not going to go into here. People are very disillusioned with Labour, and would prefer not to be, hence, UKIP and others making ground. Just because Labour aren't as evil as the Condems is not enough for people, and the opinion polls reflect this. George Galloway took a seat from Labour in Bradford, proved to be a false friend, but showed the potential of a party to the left of Labour.
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Philip this is just plain wrong.
>>the last Labour govt helped to bring about the financial crisis
No, they didn't - I'm surprised, do you really believe that? The crisis was caused by the USA and Labour dealt with it, probably better than the Tories would have.
>> bailed out the bankers
No, they didn't. They bailed out banks by nationalising them and we'll get all our money back, with a bit of interest- are you saying you would have let the banks go under? Not even the Tories support that.
and started the cuts
>> No they didn't start them, cuts started with the Tories. Labour planned a programme of cuts in a more humane, realistic and business-like way, that would not have thrown so many into poverty and damaged the economy so badly. The ConDems cuts were ideological and set us back years. The simple truth is that austerity as a policy does not work.
>>The reason he doesn't
Again, this is just plain wrong. Take the NHS - what evidence do you have for the frankly crazy claim that Miliband isn't defending the NHS? It's central to his policy.
>>People are very disillusioned with Labour, and would prefer not to be
Well, some people are but it remains a major political party. Hard to justify this claim. If these impossible-to-validate matters of opinion underpin your point of view it makes you ruler of your own hell and difficult to discuss anything with, Philip.
>>showed the potential of a party to the left of Labour
In what sense is George Galloway doing this, Philip?
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