Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Removal of railings along Harringay Passage (at junctions with the roads)
Apart from Adam Coffman was anyone else aware this work - removal of railings along Harringay Passage (at junctions with the roads) - was happening?
I know it was discussed at the first meeting of the Harringay Passage Group (yet to be constituted) in January, but wasn't aware a decision had been made between the council & a few residents that this work was to go ahead.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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Again can I challenge the assertion "on the say-so of a few residents" but a decision taken without any warning including of our councillors. Please don't allow this to turn into a war of words between residents. Someone somewhere took this decision but it certainly wasn't "a few residents"
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I understand your point of view, this should not have been done without warning and the proper involvement of everyone which is the idea behind the Friends. I am amazed and dismayed that this has happened in this way but I do take exception to the repeated assertion that " a small minority" are doing things "to their satisfaction" I can only repeat that residents have no power to take decisions and that insisting that one person can bring about this level of change is clearly not correct. It is an assertion I will keep challenging I'm afraid as it is not helping.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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If it's any reassurance, I've just found the TfL policy on railings and railings removal and on the quickest of skims I noticed that it says the following:
Full document here.There is no evidence that Pedestrian Guard Rails provides a safety benefit outside schools.
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Permalink Reply by Rory on
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Hmm... that document also states: "It is recommended that consultation with the school is undertaken and consideration taken of its views," which certainly doesn't seem to have happened. Plus, these recommendations don't address the issue here, which is the railing's function in stopping children running out from the Passage across the road.
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It goes on... "PGR can act as a safety catch, particularly for wheelchair users and children on bikes and scooters". Which is rather our point.
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I completely agree about the consultation Rory. As I said on Page 1 of this discussion, the Council have jumped the gun.
With regards to your quote, so that it is better understood I'm going to put it in context and quote the whole paragraph within which it is contained:
Slopes, Icy Conditions and Parks
PGR can prove useful during icy conditions in certain locations. In situations where crossfall gradients are steeper than usual, PGR can act as a safety catch, particularly for wheelchair users and children on bikes and scooters for example at park exits.
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The junction at Falkland Road is in line with the Passage, so now there's nothing to stop children running, or on scooters bombing straight across the road and directly into traffic. The barrier was in good nick, not an eyesore at all, and prevented this. To remove it, on one of the main junctions serving the school, seems insane.
As the father of a four-year-old with a penchant for running ahead to the crossroads, this makes me enormously uneasy. Hundreds of children cross here every day.
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Just to back up what Rory says - I have just heard a dad shout at his children (who looked about 5 and 7) because they ran right across Falkland Road from the passage (coming from Frobisher Rd), and looked back because they were confused. There is no longer any obvious difference between the road and the pavement - they are on the same level. This is what makes it potentially dangerous.
Also see my post on page 5 re this.
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Permalink Reply by ant on
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It feels like i may get shouted at defending this but it would be interesting to hear from a road saftey expert about it. Most things i've read do say that unclutering and raising the road to blend in to the footpath is supposed to slow traffic and make things better. A few other Ladder roads do already have the direct path from passage entrance across the road un-obstructed, eg Warham or Effingham, and kids aren't just scooting out across without looking. It does even make it easier to see now if thats what a child might do now - my 2 1/2 year old often scoots ahead of me turns out of the passage onto Falkland so i can't see her if she was thinking of crossing the road, at least now if that was her plan she'd just continue straight and i could see it to call out.
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Like Ant, I know nothing about road safety and guard rails. From a very quick skim of this 2003 TfL study, it seems that there was a small but statistically significant reduction in pedestrian accidents at sites where rails were fitted. However, the study also says that pedestrian behaviour at guard rails is very different for different sites. It also points out that the major benefit is at sites where pedestrians are directed to a safest crossing point. The Passage rails never served any such purpose. There may be more in the study about railings at sites similar to the Passage crossings. So, if you have time, knock yourself out.
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