Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Last chance to object to Hewit Road no right turn proposals
Hi - last post from me on this.
Those of you who've been following this discussion will have seen that the proposed no right turn at the bottom of Hewit Road is not being proposed as a 'trial' and is indeed intended to be a permanent change. This is being done without a risk assessment, and with no clear idea what the impact is going to be on the surrounding area. A number of us have pointed out the obvious risk this poses to children to-ing and fro-ing from the two schools and children's centre on Pemberton Road - and the Council have finally admitted that they know there will be an increase to traffic on Pemberton Road, yet are still pressing ahead.
If you feel strongly about this - then do take the time to make your feelings known. Previous experience has shown that if a significant number of objections are received - the council will take notice, as was the case the last time there was a proposed change to the area which clearly would have funnelled traffic past the schools and children's centre.
So - if you want to object, then do so today/tomorrow.. you can do so by emailing traffic.orders@haringey.gov.uk quoting “Objection - Hewit Road No right turn” in the subject line. Deadline for comments is Friday 8th November.
Cheers,
Paul
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Vanessa Rickett on
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I agree with Judith, thousands of posts on Harringay traffic, very little on the poverty of Harringay families - our neighbours.
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Permalink Reply by David Schmitz on
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Some time ago, I asked Tony Kennedy to ensure that in advance of any change, there should be traffic counts on all of the roads that were likely to be affected by it, the purpose being to ensure that a meaningful analysis of its affects could later be made.
I have a response in the terms below. The attachments which Mr. Kennedy mentions are uploaded here
Dear Councillor Schmitz,
Your enquiry about Traffic counts before Hewit Road change
Ref : LBH/2331513
Thank you for your enquiry regarding monitoring of the proposed banned right turn from Hewit Road.
I confirm that we have carried out traffic counts along Hewit Road and the two east-west ladder roads either side of Hewit Road. This information will be used to measure the displacement onto these roads once the banned right turn comes into operation. I attached the pre-banned turn data for your information.
The Traffic Manager Order for the banned turn will be made under permanent powers, although it is intended to carry out further traffic count 6 months post implementation and discuss the outcome with the ward councillors and strategy group.
I hope that you are satisfied with my response to your enquiry....
Yours sincerely,
Tony Kennedy
Group Manager
Sustainable Transport
- Attachments:
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Green Lanes plan.pdf, 2.3 MB -
Green Lanes volume data analysis.xls, 178 KB
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Permalink Reply by ant on
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... discuss the outcome with the ward councillors and strategy group.
But what is it that you can really do then?
As Karen pointed out in her earlier reply they don't generally listen to you anyway, and, even if somehow you got everyone to agree it was a mistake and needs reverting - you can't. It is done with a permanent traffic order. Legally it couldn't be changed without another consultation and statutory notification, which they've said there is no money to do any more of, and even if that money was found, the well organized Hewit RA would object to it and the council can't easily go ahead and make a change where the majority of responses from people on the street say no.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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I don't live on the Ladder and I'm not one of the ward councillors, but I share your puzzlement, JohnT. (Though I wouldn't want to criticise David Schmitz who I assume has passed on this information as soon as he got it.)
I'm concerned about a general issue raised here, which applies across Haringey. When residents are asked to give their views on such a change, and if data actually exists, it should be available and publicised so people are as informed as possible. Maybe this was the case with the traffic counts done last March?
A further point on my own statistical ignorance. Personally, I find a set of bar charts unhelpful without some narrative to explain and set them in context. But perhaps this has been done too?
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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Permalink Reply by Justin Guest on
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Your post is a bit harsh John, and I am sure you do not intend it to be so. In fairness to David we should be saying well done as he is the only person to actually squeeze blood out of this stone and come up with any 'actual' data- and he has only just got it.
You are absolutely right that we should have had this a lot earlier, but we need collectively to focus that frustration elsewhere!
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Permalink Reply by Alison P on
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Am also curious about the timing of this data arriving, given that the council have had it since March.
From a really quick look the things that spring out to me are: a) the very different pattern on weekdays and weekends (the first day in the graphs is a Friday - 22 March) and; b) the fact that this is when Hewit Rd really stands out as getting more traffic. On the weekdays Fairfax doesn't look that different from Hewit.
I don't know if this is relevant but just noticed that the week chosen to do the count was the week before Easter (it ended the day before Good Friday). Possibly not a 'typical' week, if such a thing exists, though none of the local schools were on holiday at that point - the state schools had two weeks off after Easter.
Even though it is very partial, this does show the importance of proper counts carried out over a number of days.
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Permalink Reply by Andrew Stillman on
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i can understand everyone's curiosity. it's a shame it wasn't available.
i think it should quieten the fears of some though. from my reading of it hewtt seems to have about double the traffic that beresford has and about 50% more than pemberton. it may well be that this change, if it happens, will redistribute traffic between those roads more evenly.
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Andrew. I think once the vitriol has been taken out of this discussion most folks would concede readily that Hewit was shagged 12 years ago, and this shagging continues today as we can see. It is very useful to have something to hang this off, though I would suggest it needs a bit more than just this one week's data for the picture to emerge clearly.
The point that most people would make here though is that there has been little or no transparency in how this has all happened (including the initial consultation with Hewit Residents, the courtesy or knowledge of which was not extended to other roads likely to be affected, being carried out in a seemingly cloak and dagger way). They would also likely make the point that this process is not going to be equitable in how the impacts are felt. Let me state, I support a no right turn for Hewit. But, I do not support the beggar thy neighbour manner in which all this is being done. We have to find a way of making folks lives better in a way that does not do unto them what was done unto Hewit 12 years ago...
"it may well be that this change, if it happens, will redistribute traffic between those [my emphasis]roads more evenly" What do we do if the traffic levels flows alter such that instead of seeing the Hewit, Fairfax, Pemberton and Beresford carrying respectively more traffic but it alters to see respectively Fairfax/Beresford, Pemberton and Hewit with Fairfax/Beresford now receiving 3.5 times the traffic Hewit or Beresford receive and 50% less that Pemberton? A successful redistribution away from Hewit possibly, but the other roads get shagged in the process.
This is the problem we face.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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No Hewit was OK 12 years ago. It was when the gardens were gated that the problems started.
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Refresh my memory John, when was that?
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There is an earlier discussion about the timing of lots of these things here:
http://www.harringayonline.com/forum/topics/when-was-your-road-firs...
But annoyingly the one thing it doesn't state is when the Gardens were gated. I've been here since 2001 and I think it happened very soon after my arrival but I can't be sure.
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Permalink Reply by Judith Box on
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There wasn't a consultation with Hewit Road residents. This is some weird myth that has taken hold and continues add to the drama. A group of Hewit Road residents got together and responded on masse to the regeneration plan, which everyone in the area were entitled to do.
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