Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Cost of Housing in Harringay
With housing costs now at preposterous levels in Harringay, particularly on the ladder, does anyone have any thoughts as to how this issue may be tackled. It is now no exaggeration to say that we are in the midst of a housing crisis with only the most affluent being able to afford to live in the area. This, coupled with the introduction of the benefit cap pilot in Haringey, is having a terrible effect on individuals, and particularly families, in the area.
One thing we could do for a start is try to halt the money being spent on doing up Green Lanes. This is a terrible idea for us that live in the area as it is only going to lead to more gentrification and higher housing costs for us all. My feeling is that this is being pushed by the Traders on Green Lanes and the impact on rents and house prices has not been considered. I see the benefits for the Traders but see little benefits for us that live here.
All this is going hand on hand with the continued gentrification and change in social make up of the area that is also pushing up housing costs.
It's the million dollar question, but any ideas?
Tags for Forum Posts: housing
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Richard Willmsen on
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Very good points made by JJ. It is somewhat depressing to see that lot of people who use this website give every impression of only being concerned with the increasing value of their property, and clearly care not a jot for the lives of those who live next door to them.
There are a great deal of people in our borough who are desperately in need of food, shelter, and care services, and who in their need for these things are being actively abandoned by the Government and the local council. If you choose to ignore this in favour of worrying only about notional increases in your own little patch of land, you are a poor excuse for a human being. Stop fantasising that you live in Highgate or Notting Hill - the majority of people in Haringey are poor and every increase in local property provides makes life worse for them.
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Permalink Reply by Abi on
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Right - so you're saying that the less well-off don't care about/won't benefit from cleaner streets, more attractive surroundings, more trees, better cared-for shops etc? Seems a bit patronising to me. I think the opposition to JJ's post is mostly that s/he's targeting the wrong issue - personally I agree that more housing needs to be created to deal with this problem, not less. But I do think that improving aspects of the area that some may consider highly 'superficial' (and yes, that includes improving the look of the high street) is actually of equal importance.
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Permalink Reply by JJ on
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The trouble is that the "less well-off" won't be here anymore. They'll be enjoying your cleaner streets, more attractive surroundings, nice shops etc from a great distance.
Or the "less well-off" that remain can enjoy the clean streets and more attractive surroundings before returning to their family living in their one or two rooms in their own "more attractive surroundings".
More attractive surroundings for whom?
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What a load of rubbish, I sort of see what you mean but the area could be really beautiful if it was cared for more. I know I'd rather have clean pavements/more trees etc and feel like I want to walk around the area more so I do actually feel like I live in the community. Thats nothing to do with house prices. I'd only be concerned with house prices if i wanted to make enough on my house to then move to a more expensive area. Why can't it be made up the potential it clearly has. I'm in no way in favour of making it crouch end, just nicer. If it does improve I could stay forever!
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Permalink Reply by Christopher Fowler on
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Jacqueline - Agree with you that upgrading the public spaces would give a more welcoming and relaxed feel along Green Lanes, so that's good. And I agree, we don't want it to end up like Crouch End. Unfortunately, there are reports elsewhere on HoL that people from Crouch End are already moving here in search of larger/cheaper properties. Crouch End is the way it is because for the last two decades all the therapists who couldn't afford to live in Hampstead moved to Crouch End. You can't walk ten yards down the street in Crouch End without falling over a therapist of one kind of another. Soon they will all be hanging out their shingles here, and answering a simple question in a cafe, like "would you like milk with that" will result in a host of therapists pulling out their notebooks to analyse your response.
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The original thread here was that the council should not invest in the local infrastructure because this would cause homelessness
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The regeneration of Green Lanes is going to increase the cost of housing in the area. It's clear that for some this is a catastrophe and will mean having to take children out of school and move away from jobs, family and social networks. As a consequence of the benefit cap anyone on benefits and not in work cannot afford to live anywhere in Haringey. For those who are in work and have children and aren't lucky or affluent enough to own a suitable home and are trying to cover the costs of housing, childcare, energy bills etc it's also a catastrophe and will mean having to uproot children and move.
It's also clear that others see an increase in housing costs for other people as a good thing, presumably because they've bought into the fallacy that an increase in their house price means an increase in their wealth.
There is nothing wrong with the area now, I'm staggered that some seem to think there is. it's a perfectly safe and pleasant area to live. If it's a balance between having clean pavements and nice shop fronts against forcing families out of the area then I know what I would choose.
I say again that the benefits for the Traders on Green Lanes are obvious but for the rest of us I see little benefit in it. Actually it's going to do a great deal of harm. we've seen already in places like Brixton - http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/class-war-breaking-out-in-bri...
where established local communities are increasingly resentful of the gentrification of their community. I'm also mystified as to why some here think this is a joke. It maybe says something about the increasing social divide in Harringay and London as a whole.
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Out of interest jj what's your background. Where do you live and what do you do. Are you a journalist ? I can see that you are desperately trying to push as many of peoples buttons as possible. I also notice that you have no simple answer to your original 'million dollar' question. are you a 14yo boy bunking off school ? You sound like that kind of troll. (just saying like)
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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That's not fair James.
jj, whether journalist or 14 year-old boy has raised an interesting point. I personally don't agree that a bit of tarting up Green Lanes will have any effect on rents or house prices, the main determinant being supply and demand, but he/she is entitled to put forward his/her thesis whatever his/her ( English can be so clumsy sometimes ) background and occupation. Button pushing, if that's what it is, has elicited some thought-provoking replies, and why not ?
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What? I live on the Ladder and I am not a journo. And of course I have no simple answer. I'm not trying to push anyone's buttons I'm just pointing out that the consequences of regeneration and gentrification are that established families are forced out, or more likely they remain in the area and are forced into poor and overcrowded accommodation as that's all they can afford.
Also (see Upper Street, Crouch End, Stroud Green etc), as some here have pointed out, the consequences of regeneration mean the very thing that attracted people to the area in the first place becomes a corporatised and sanitised pastiche of itself where generally only the most affluent can afford to live.
If doing up Green Lanes contributes to higher house prices, as it surely will, then I don't want it. Spend the money on building genuinely affordable homes for rent instead.
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Permalink Reply by Mike on
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I think you make an interesting and valid point JJ. I have lived Finsbury Park and surrounding areas since the early 1970's and you are absolutely right wrt the way gentrification has changed the character of Crouch End and Stroud Green - young upwardly mobile professionals have largely replaced the previous communities. I am in favour of spending public money on better services and amenities, but I am totally against spending it on cosmetic changes such as are in the pipeline for Green Lanes. I fail to see the benefit in throttling exits to Green Lanes, extending pavements and planting a few benches on Green Lanes. Indeed these proposals seem irresponsibly profligate at a time of economic stress - voluntary funding for support groups being cut, NHS under pressure etc etc. Surely public money being spent on these 'improvements' could be better spent elsewhere, rather than on an attempt to make Green Lanes a more latte-compatible zone.
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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London is a safe haven for billionaires. The latest reported to be arriving with family is Israel's richest man, worth 4 billion. Why is he coming? Because Israel want to tax him more so he's moving half his business to this city/country, which can't even tax Google etc properly (Oh and Google are moving to Kings Cross, recently regenerated).
Low tax intake = less for services & infrastructure spend = more opportunities for private business to step in = more donations to the tory party. No one in any of the three main political parties is seriously interested in matters of poverty or the majority of the population making a reasonable living (see the last 16 years of politics since New Labour got in).
JJ, in the scheme of things the small amount of money being spent on Green Lanes is for basic stuff (which should be done as a matter of course anyway and not have to be presented as a selective spend - it's called maintenance and having pride in ones community). But your wider issues of stupidly high rents etc are very real and rightly pointed out.
IF THERE WAS AN ELECTION TOMORROW WHO WOULD YOU ALL VOTE FOR?!!
I ask this because parliament is supposedly the place where policy, tax & spend decisions are made on our behalf, decisions which help to determine various outcomes (such as housing) discussed in this thread.
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