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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Parking fine, advice needed!

I sold my car a few months ago and just got sent a parking fine for a infringement made after I'd sold it because the details of the new owner weren't on the DVLA system yet. The appeal form allows me to say that I'm not the owner any more but then asks for the details of the new owner and I don't have them because I sold the car through a third party and they aren't returning my calls. Does anyone know if this means that my appeal will be turned down? Surely Haringey can just go back to DVLA and get the new owners details (DVLA won't tell me of course).

Tags for Forum Posts: Parking, fines

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Permalink Reply by Charlotte on December 18, 2012 at 13:02

You can appeal online and attach supporting material or email it in response to the automatic email you get.  So if the system makes you fill out boxes you cannot fill out write in made up numbers and then tell them you have done so in the supporting material.   I am a firm believer in appealing parking fines where they are unreasonable as I believe the council relies on apathy and it being easier to pay the fine than challenge it.  In my experience the council struggles to handle the appeals and the fines will often lapse as they have not handled the appeal within the set time.

Permalink Reply by Alison P on December 18, 2012 at 13:10

Thank you all. Based on where I'd got to with this last night I have put all my efforts into getting the name and address details of the new owner, and have now managed to get these. So I will be filling in the form online tonight and hopefully this will be an end to it. Must say makes me very thankful I no longer have a car! 

Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on December 18, 2012 at 13:49

Hi Alison, though it seems you have - fortunately - been able to solve your own problem, this situation is not unique. So I felt there should be some specific advice/guidance on  the Council's website.

I rang a senior staff member in the Parking Service a few minutes ago and have emailed them a link to this thread. I asked them to consider how they could help you and other people in the same position by giving some specific information on the website. They promised to read the thread; and also explained that the DVLA have changed their procedure, which can cause some difficulty.

(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)

Permalink Reply by Alison P on December 18, 2012 at 20:37
Thanks Alan, that's really helpful. I'm feeling relieved that I don't have to put this to the test myself but remain intrigued about what would have happened if I wasn't able to supply the details.
Permalink Reply by Alison P on December 21, 2012 at 15:55

I spoke too soon .. 

I submitted my challenge earlier in the week, supplying all the information requested. So today I got a letter which a) didn't reveal whether my challenge had ever been received and b) was so confusingly written I had no idea what if anything I was supposed to do!! So I then called parking services - 40 minutes on hold and then a further 10 minutes speaking with a (fantastically patient and helpful) woman who had to keep switching between me and the letter writer because 'they don't speak to members of the public'. I'm still totally confused about what I need to do - so frustrating. I copied one of my councillors (David S) into the email, don't know if that will help. 

I'm very hacked off about it. The only silver lining is it just makes me even happier I sold my car - I will never have to deal with parking services again (unless I need more visitors permits .. ). 

Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on January 8, 2013 at 1:44

Just to let Alison P, and other people know that after I contacted the Parking Service they've now added extra information on the Council website. It gives advice on what you need to avoid a parking charge after you've sold (or otherwise transferred ownership) of your vehicle. The new material is posted here.

If you find it helpful, please pass on the link to other people.

My thanks to Ann Cunningham and Gary Weston in the Parking Service for getting this posted.

____________________

Alison, did you eventually sort out the problem?

Permalink Reply by Alison P on January 8, 2013 at 20:52

No!

It seems it is up to me to get a letter from DVLA confirming I was not the owner at the time of the parking offence. And DVLA can't just send me this - I need to request it from them in writing and it then takes 4 weeks to get it. I asked Haringey why I need to do this and why it cant be done in a more straightforward way and nobody has yet explained why. However, the penalty has been put on hold until I have this proof from DVLA. What I really don't understand is what this means for the new owner who should be paying the fine - presume he is blissfully unaware of the PCN until I've proved it isn't mine (by which time it is over 2 months old).

I do actually wonder whether I should have just paid the ruddy fine to be honest - I have probably spent 3 hours on the phone or writing emails about this. Only partly joking...

But thanks for your help Alan, much appreciated.

Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on January 9, 2013 at 1:11

I sometimes notionally divide problems into two groups: (a) real and (b) fake.

(a) Example: a leaky roof. Real rain is going to come through real holes.

(b) Example: an arbitrary bureaucratic rule which makes little or no sense but makes life a little bit more stressful and wastes the time of everyone involved. An imaginary extreme example: roof tilers can only work on Fridays.  Or an actual fake problem. The former owner of a car has to write to the DVLA and the reply will take four weeks etc. etc. etc

I expect that all over the country there will be other people having this absurdity patiently explained to them. Perhaps it's time for an MP to ask a question in Parliament and put a stop to this pant —

I was going to type "pantomime" but we saw Dick Whittington at the Hackney Empire last week and it was witty, colourful, creative and joyful. The Dame, Principal Boy, and the cat were more real than DVLA bureaucracy.

Permalink Reply by Andrew Rose on January 19, 2013 at 12:22

Hi Alan.

Please help me! My girlfriend wrote to you a little while ago, explaining my problem. I parked my car on Sydney Road on 3/11/12. My car had a parking permit on it. However, when I returned to my car, the adhesive had failed on the parking permit, the permit was lying face down on my dashboard and I had been given a parking fine.

I contested this parking fine with the council and they initially accepted my appeal. They sent me a letter, indicating that I did not have to pay the fine. I considered the matter to be over and, since I was in the process of moving houses, (I now live on Sirdar Road), I threw away the letter. Unfortunately, a month later I received another letter from the council, asking me to pay the fine.

I then rang up the council, informing them that I had been instructed that I did not have to pay the fine. However, the lady on the telephone informed me that the fine had not been taken off of the system and the letter that they had sent me had not been logged. She therefore suggested that I re-submit the appeal.

I therefore re-submitted my appeal, which included a picture that I had taken of my parking permit affixed to my front window. This was about a month ago. Unfortunately, no one responded to my second appeal and I have now received a third letter, requesting that I pay the fine.

I went onto the Haringey website for a third time today, and attempted to submit my appeal for the third time, only to find that I am no longer able to do this.

It seems rediculous that I should have to pay a fine that I have already been told that I do not have to pay. What do I do. I do not know if you can help, but my PCN number is: HY19057082. I have attached the picture that I sent to the council, proving my innocence to this email.

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