Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Your Neighbourhood Name: whose right to choose?
The rebranding of our neighbourhood is about to become a live issue again with the Council asserting its claimed right to choose what we're called for the signage to be erected as part of the 2013 regeneration work.
The tussle over Harringay's name has been going on for over a hundred years. Throughout that time it seems to have featured a struggle between the Council, on the one hand, claiming a right to choose and the local people, on the other, demanding a right to self-determination.
Over a hundred years ago, and long before the creation of Haringey borough, Hornsey District Council decided to change the spelling of Harringay Neighbourhood to Haringey. Local people took exception at this imposition from above and resisted the change. The opinion was expressed by, amongst others, the Harringay Ratepayers Association who represented the people of one of three Harringay Wards. Theirs was in part of what is now St Ann's Ward. The legacy of the struggle can be seen today in the signage along the Harringay Passage.
Local people won the day then and our name was safe until the latter part of the last century when the Council administration decided they had a right to change Harringay's name. Haringey Councillor and cabinet member, Nilgun Canver explained a couple of years back:
Too much emphasis on Harringay confuses everyone with the borough Haringey and I’m afraid it refers to the Harringay ward and excludes the Gardens
It's odd to see the modern day Haringey Labour party, erstwhile representatives of the people, following in the footsteps of the Tory burghers of Hornsey Council. Moreover, I'm afraid this argument just doesn't wash with me. The inhabitants of countless other London boroughs seem to manage perfectly well with boroughs and towns that bear the same name. Islington, Hackney, Camden, Enfield and many others all survive. Perhaps the real issue is that a name was chosen that doesn't share the same name as the Council's chosen administrative capital as it is the case for all the other London boroughs I've mentioned. Their vanity perhaps requires that it should do so. But is this reason enough for us to be stripped of our historical name?
For many people, this whole issue may seem esoteric and rather irrelevant. However, I'm not alone in taking a rather different view. My belief is that for our neighbourhood to thrive and for people to identify with it, it needs to have a single name. Right now, as the traders magazine posted through your door just before Christmas bears witness, we have at least three names. How can our identity and distinctiveness be developed when this is the case.
I said just now that I wasn't alone in taking a stance on this. In New York, Democrat Assemblyman Hakeem Jeffries thought the principle involved in the issue was so important that he introduced the Neighbourhoods Identity Act, requiring New York City to develop a community-oriented process of community agreement before neighbourhoods can be rebranded or boundaries redefined.
I'm with you Hakeem.
So then, which name? The current variants are:
- the original Harringay
- Harringay Green Lanes
- Green Lanes
Others have been suggested including Harringay Park and Harringay Village.
My choice is simple. I stick with Harringay. Why? Two reasons. Firstly, that's the name we've had for 130 years and I see no need to change it. Secondly, the other names don't work for me. Green Lanes is a road that runs from Newington Green to Enfield. If avoidance of confusion is the aim, this doesn't do it. Harringay Green Lanes is a three word name. Three word names don't stick. Most of them tend to get abbreviated to the first word of the name anyway. Kingston-upon-Thames for example is more commonly called Kingston. St Martins in the Fields is known as St Martins, and so on.
I suppose there is a third reason for me and that's just that I don't like people asserting rights over me that I don't believe they have. I don't believe that the Council or the Green Lanes Strategy Group have the right to change the name of the place I live in, no matter how much good work they may do. That just bridles. No, I'm with the thoroughly democratic instincts of Congressman Hakeem Jeffries. Even if I am a voice in the wilderness, I say if there's any need to tinker with the name of our neighbourhood, then let the community decide what it should be.
In 2013, as things stand the Council and the Green Lanes Strategy Group will assert their right to brand your neighbourhood as they see fit as part of the Harringay regeneration project. I was promised that the community would be given the right to choose and to influence the way that choice was made. In a few recent email exchanges I have detected the possibility of more than a little back-pedaling on this issue.
So, once I have written this post, I will email Councillor Canver, Chair of the Green Lanes Strategy Group to ask for her public commitment that the community be given the determining voice in what our neighbourhood is called.
Amendment
The following paragraphs were added as a comment to this thread by the original author on 5th Jan 2013. Since they cover key issues, and I have been told the comment is hard to find, I have copied them in below:
Having picked up on Alan's suggestion to refer to the legal situation for changing an area's name, a relatively quick spin through sources available has turned up some interesting information.
1. A neighbourhood name has no legal status.
2. The closest approximation for any legal status is contained in quasi-legal or "official" gazettes, such as the Royal Mail's PAF Gazette.
However, even though the information they contain is official rather than legal, it's fascinating to see what lengths the Royal Mail has to go to in order to change the name of a neighbourhood.
Their guidance details a three month consultation process in order to allow changing the name of a neighbourhood in its gazette. The process includes writing to every address affected as well as the MP and other official bodies.
3. Street names and numbers are governed by law, as Alan was told. The relevant legislation is the Public Health Acts Amendment Act of 1907. It says:
The local authority may, with the consent of two-thirds in number of the ratepayers, and persons who are liable to pay an amount in respect of council tax, in any street, alter the name of such street or any part of such street.
So, there is no law that governs the naming of neighbourhoods, but there are principles of justice aplenty that should guide the Council in how it behaves in a situation when it seeks to change an area's name.
As Planning Organisation, Planning Sanity puts it, a neighbourhood is:
" an area where inhabitants live and that it is their state of mind as to what constitutes their neighbourhood. A neighbourhood should not be seen to correspond to any legal or physical division, but more as a social concept, the evidence for which may be given by the people who live there."
If we take as a precedent the principles enshrined both in law and official practice and the opinion of urban experts, I can find no precedent or reference to any principle of justice which suggests that a name change can or should be imposed from above by a person, group of persons or body. At every turn I find evidence confirming my belief that the naming of a neighbourhood belongs to the people who inhabit it and should only be changed with painstaking consultation. It seems extraordinary then that any elected member or officer should even be considering taking it upon themselves or a small semi-official body to rename a neighbourhood however well meaning might be their intent.
In other areas where a change has been sought, consultations have been the norm. Staines is the most recent example.
It's difficult not to wonder, if a Council is prepared to cut corners on allowing local people self-determintaion in less weighty situations such as this, where else are such 'efficiencies' made at the cost of democratic justice?
I remain convinced that unless and until we have a proper process whereby local residents approve a change, the Council should in all documents refer to Harringay as Harringay.
Tags for Forum Posts: glsg, harringay name
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on
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Just to contradict myself, I wonder if anyone actually uses Harringay Green Lanes on their address? I haven't.
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Permalink Reply by ElleCarumba on
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I don't use Harringay Green Lanes when giving my address on forms etc but I do when describing to people unfamiliar with North London where I live.
I do this because Harringay Green Lanes appears on the standard tube maps where as Harringay station does not because it is not a TFL station. ( I know you get the expanded maps with rail services listed but I mean the standard tube map with coloured lines)
I think a lot of people use the TFL map to get a rough idea of where places are in London. I know people who would describe where they live as "Highbury and Islington" instead of just Highbury or Upper Street or anything else because the station name is what registers with most people.
Of course the best answer to this would be to take First Capital Connect's franchise away and give that line to TFL to run, thus making Harringay appear on the standard TFL map and hopefully improving the train service as well.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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I think you've hit another nail on the head. As I've written elsewhere, the railways share responsibility for the confusion. The renaming of the station on Green Lanes following the closure of Harringay Stadium is what probably initially drove the emergence of Harringay Green Lanes as a label by people who don't know London. I'd never thought about the fact that nowadays it's on the underground map whereas Harringay isn't. That's a good point.
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Permalink Reply by Pete Thorniley on
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There's definitely some truth in the power of stations to give a name to an area. If you'll allow a little idle dreaming, imagine if we could rename Harringay Green Lanes as simply "Harringay" and adopt the bridge sign Birdy's put up above. No one would have any question where they were then.
The existing Harringay station could go back to being Harringay West. After all, Harringay Green Lanes is right in the centre of the area whereas the current Harringay station is right on the western edge. It'll never happen, but it would make a lot more sense.
There's a reason why the rebranding of Harringay never sticks, it's because "Harringay Green Lanes" refers to the bit of Green Lanes that is in Harringay while "Green Lanes" refers to a road that runs through Harringay. They don't make sense when applied to the area as a whole and will thus never take root - they'd both be nonsensical on an address as pointed out by others. However, the inconsistent approach to their usage does muddy the waters which means that the coherent identity of the area is compromised. As residents, we have a right to be annoyed about that. It needn't and shouldn't be happening.
To be honest, I care less what the area is called than that it is allowed to be called something and we can get rid of the current confusion. Of the options, "Harringay" is the only name that has a chance (if given one by the council - simply doing the bridge right would make a huge difference). Of course, it has the added advantage that it is already the name most people use!
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Harringay station was called Harringay West to distinguish it from the other Harringay station now renamed Harringay Green Lanes. But I don't remember anyone ever saying they lived in "Harringay West" just because the railway authorities had chosen that name. Whatever the Council or the railways call it Harringay will still be Harringay.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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There have, as Hugh pointed out, been a few such consultations in the past and the issue has still not been put to bed. I am for this reason, against further consultations - let's just stick with the name the people who lived here before us agreed upon and fought hard to be able to continue using.
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Where did the new Warehouse District come from on the new HOL map, I have never heard of this, is that the council too?
http://www.harringayonline.com/forum/topics/harringay-s-sub-neighbo...
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You can always get me at hugh@harringayonline.com, but that won't help with reaching Cllr Canver.
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It's terrible when people make light hearted satirical remarks isn't it? Londoners should be serious at all times.Especially about Harringay (not where common people live).
Hyacinth Bucket rears her head in Harringay methinks.
Isn't the real reason that some people don't want Harringay's name changed that: "we don't want to be associated with all the scruffy looking riff raff on Green Lanes,they aren't our sort of people at all darling,lovey! I'm sure some of those veg shops are a cover for crime gangs money laundering,even though I've got no evidence to back that up " .We are between Finsbury Park and Turnpike Lane,don't you know,and we own our own house, we don't live in one of those awfull HMO's,we are closer to Harringay train station/Hornsey than Harringay Green Lanes,we are closer to Stroud Green than Green Lanes really darling."
PS some of the above is a coded message,because we would never say anything racist.Never.We love the diversity of Green Lanes and that is not why we don't want our name changed to Harringay Green Lanes.It's not because we want to distance ourselves from riff raff.We aren't snobs.
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Some of us make light hearted fun of posts on here but for me this was naughty because Alan is a Labour councillor and his partner Zena Brabazon is a Labour councillor in the St Ann's ward alongside Nilgun Canver and in my experience, she is the person driving this forward (in her language). I agree that it is very much open to satire but after five years of this I'm afraid I no longer see the funny side.
By the way, in the spirit of "I like bumping into my neighbours in the street", I do hope to see you at a drinks sometime where you tell me your real name.
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Although my comments above were lighthearted,to be serious for a moment,I do agree that Harringay should keep it's name.
The reason for this is that I suppose I am a bit of a snob; and I do think Green Lanes can look a bit scruffy sometimes. So I am satarising my own opinion really,hypocritical !
So keeping the name Harringay gives pride to local residents who wish to distance themselves from Green Lanes.And have pride in their street and the home they bought on ladder neighbourhood.A separate identity and pride from scruffy Green Lanes.
Also how is it confusing to call Harringay Harringay. You don't need to put Harringay on your address just postcode so postmen won't be confused.Who is getting confused? Sounds like an excuse for Haringey Council to annoy residents by being control freaks.
Harringay Village - no,London districts are not a series of villages they are urban London.It's pretentious to call it a village,it's not rural.Also it's not a "gay village".Joke.
Harringay Green Lanes - no. I drove down Green Lanes with litter blowing around etc some nice family home on the ladder where people take pride don't need to be connected to that image.
Call me a snob if you like,I am for my sins.
Thank you very much for your invitation Mr McMullan.Unfortunately I will be watching television that evening.
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