Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Councillor Stanton Sent into Wilderness by Local Labour Group
The Labour whip was withdrawn from long serving Tottenham councillor, Alan Stanton last night.
A meeting of the local Haringey Council Labour group last night took the rarely used step of withdrawing the whip from one of its longest serving councillors. The official reason given was Councillor Stanton's voting in opposition to the appointment of new Council Chief Executive, Nick Walkley.
The action was taken by the Labour political group on the Council. It's party business, rather than official council business. However, I do wonder at the meaning of that distinction; when it's a decision by the ruling group over the issue of the appointment of the Council boss, it seems barely relevant to draw a line between the two.
Being deprived of the whip cuts a concillor off from the party’s support machine, labels them as a bad boy, and can lead to their being deselected as the party’s candidate for the next election. It's the grown up political equivalent of playground kids sending someone to Coventry.
So that must be awful for a serious councillor like Alan Stanton with fifteen years of office behind him, right? Wrong. Stanton made clear how he felt about it at 3:00AM this morning on Twitter:
Kober threw me in the briar patch. This is really gonna be fun!
— Alan Stanton (@AlanStanton_) December 7, 2012
(For those of you less familiar with Uncle Remus, Stanton's briar patch refers to an apparently awful thicket into which clever B'rer Rabbit tricked Bre’r Fox throwing him and from which he quickly escaped to make more mischief.)
In conversation with Alan, some hours before the briar patch tweet, Alan told me, "I'm so disillusioned with the level of secrecy in the local party, the need to control from the top, that I'm glad to be out of it".
The current censure applies to Alan for three months. Whist it's by no means certain whether the party want the independent minded Tottenham Councillor back amongst their number when that time is up, this Councillor is certainly not for turning. Alan told me, "No, I won't reapply to rejoin the Labour group that's enough for me." Their loss I'd say. Independent minded he may be, but he's a politician who is a serious thinker and has his heart in the right place. I have to question where a party who doesn't have room for someone like Alan is headed.
As for Alan's future, he has a big agenda he wants to get his teeth into with the big issues around making Tottenham a better place to live, short of simply allowing it to gentrify. He seems to think the chances of his serving as a councillor again are slim though since he sees little chance of an independent councillor ever being elected in his neighbourhood.
Let's not bid farewell to Alan yet, though. This is after all a rabbit that lives by its wits.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by dont want to give name on
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Imagine the scene in the recent past.
The Baby P tragedy has shocked the nation.
Haringey Council need to do something to make people feel confident in their leadership.
So what do they do?
They make Ms Kober the leader of the council,a lady who is at the age of 36 of child bearing age.
Ms Kober takes up her post as leader of Haringey Council.
Then she gets pregnant and goes off on maternity leave for months.
So she is not doing her job that council tax payers are paying for as she is having kids?
How does that inspire confidence in people disgusted by baby P death and other issues?
People who run their own business often do not employ women of child bearing age, as it's a waste of money, as the women can go off pregnant and then not be there to do the job.
But Haringey Council think that's a good way to respond to baby p lack of confidence by public.
They could have made a 50 year old man the leader of the council someone who had lots of experience in local councils,someone who wouldn't go off pregnant after five minutes and then effectively sack councillors with 15 years of experience of the area where riots kicked off.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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From what I've seen of Ms Kober I don't think she would let a minor inconvenience like pregnancy / maternity interfere with her work.
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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People who run their own business often do not employ women of child bearing age, as it's a waste of money, as the women can go off pregnant and then not be there to do the job.
A waste of money ? Shame on them..
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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Also illegal under discrimination laws in this country. Any employer against whom such an accusation could be proved would find themselves in court.
The issue of Cllr Kober's gender or her reproductive life is not pertinent to this discussion and is in fact discriminatory. While no one on this thread has actually supported 'don't want' 's view to which he is, I suppose, entitled, it should be stated that this is not a view that has any grounding in reality but is based on pure, old fashioned anti-woman discrimination.
Judgement of a person's record in office should be solely based on what they do and their gender (or indeed race, sexuality, disability) is utterly irrelevant to that.
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"d't wnt to gv nm", it's finally obvious why you don't want to give it. I've always thought my own Kober-baiting tendencies were somewhat suspect but yours are a bloody disgrace.
Eddie Finnegan
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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I THINK the cabinet aspect is relevant and in this way.
At national government level, cabinet members are expected to show collective responsibliity, which means they support the majority position of the cabinet (or at least, don't opppose it) whether or not they agree with the declared policy.
I think this is reasonable as government would quickly break down otherwise. If you don't like the policy, you leave, as Michael Heseltine did over the Westland helicopter contract. Or you might be invited to leave. Then you become a back-bencher and can comment (or snipe) from the sidelines.
But Alan was not in the local version of the Cabinet and he wasn't bound by such a convention.
It is healthy that there are alternative, even dissenting views. And they're unlikely to be silenced. In fact, the whip withdrawal could be counter productive, in that Cllr Stanton will feel less inhibited than before, not that he was especially inhibited earlier.
Cllr Adje - no whip withdrawal and a member in good standing
The whip withdrawal throws into sharp relief - both for Alan's and the public's benefit - of the contrast in treatment between Cllr. Adje and Cllr. Stanton. Alan has been excluded from a council majority group in which Cllr. Adje was apparently welcomed back after his four month suspension. What does message does this give?
There is an element of courage in Alan's stand against Adje.
He surely did not draw attention to Adje's conduct as a career move - it nearly cost Alan the whip a while ago. It's one thing for me, as a member of the public, to complain about Cllr. Adje's conduct and another for one of his colleagues to do so. But for Alan to take on the former council leader in this way - and to persist in asking polite, pertinent, penetrating questions – does take a certain amount of principle.
This is the more true, when Cllr. Adje disgracefully and shamelessly accuses - or hints that - his critics are motivated by racism. As Cllr Adje finds himself unable to defend his actions on their merits, he attacks the critics. This is the measure of the man. It is also a measure of the local council majority party, that they can't see the tactic for what it is and can't deal with it. Does this not show how gutless some of Alan's colleagues are?
I doubt if someone of Cllr Adje's judgement could have achieved 'Cabinet' level, without being able - dishonestly - to cow most of his critics in this way.
Unfortunately for Cllr. Adje, at his Standards Determination Hearlng (trial), there was nothing apart from a relentless focus on the facts and his conduct. For those who don't know about these things, 'conduct' isn't about politeness - its about judgement that has cost this Borough millions of pounds wasted.
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Last, I don't know Cllr Kober well. I know she is a defender of libraries but I might well disagree with others of her policies. But I think that linking Baby P and Ms Kober's recent pregnancy is unwise and unseemly.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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I need to apologise and correct a mistake in what I wrote above. The possible job-share I mentioned of the "cabinet" Environment brief was in the current Council and not while Brian Haley was still a councillor.
Can I also comment on the issue of Claire Kober's age and her maternity leave. Frankly both are a serious diversion from the real issues. In fact there are very real advantages in having a young parent as a Council Leader or in a "cabinet" position. There need to be many more younger councillors. And the time-tabling of meetings needs to reflect that fashionable phrase "the work/life balance". Including giving more consideration to people with families - men and women.
One key factor in achieving that rebalancing is teamwork. Linked to this is the need to build a culture of learning. (And I don't just mean sending people off on courses.) We need councillors who share out the jobs; listen and learn from one another; from professional council staff; and - crucially - by seeking out active dialogue with residents. Also bringing in or seeking out experts from outside; and anyone who has something helpful and fresh to offer. The guiding principle should always be: who knows, rather than who's who. With a determination to make policies and take decisions based on sound principles backed by evidence.
If this sounds a tall order, it is. But not impossible.
A group of councillors can buck the system pressures and run along the lines I've suggested. I'm told there are other London Boroughs doing this. And it does not exclude people with high ambition. But ambition by itself isn't enough. It would need leading councillors with ability, strong political principles and who have a willingness and capacity to work collaboratively.
<sigh>. Anyone who has watched the childish yah-boo nonsense which takes up most "debates" in Haringey Council meetings will realise that with the current leadership of both Haringey parties the kind of local Council I'm advocating is unlikely - at least for the time being.
Responding to the point about the national cabinet. There is no such "cabinet convention" in local councils. One of the few times I agreed with Will Hoyle (Billy Hole) was when he referred to playing Parliament. All this stuff about "cabinets" and "crossing the floor" and "backbenchers" is just pretentious twaddle.
It would be perfectly possible and indeed very healthy for democracy if local "cabinet" councillors shared their views and knowledge. The fake "convention" ensures their silence and bolsters Cllr Kober's power.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor until May 2014)
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Responding to the point about the national cabinet
Alan I was not necessarily endorsing the notion of a "Cabinet Executive" and I too was taken with Billy's comment about play-parliament. However, the point I was making was that whip withdrawal might have been more reasonable had you been a member of the "Cabinet" with its attendent responsbility for policy execution.
I'm sure we both agree about the unkindess, uneccessity and undesirablness of attack on Ms Kober's maternity leave. But you might admit that some of your own remarks about her were approaching the border of being rude or too personal (I'm not suggesting this justified your expulsion).
Anyway, with 1,400+ views to this thread, the wilderness doesn't look lonely.
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Clive, I gave them a fair choice. They knew I didn't intend going for selection as a candidate for 2014. If Kober/Goldberg were as politically astute as they think they are, they'd have ignored me and left me issuing mild and not-so-mild reprimands for another 17 months. While pointing out how much real, vigorous and passionate internal and external debate the Muswell Hill colonial administration welcomes and encourages. People's Front of Tottenham? Tottenham People's Front? Bring 'em on. We'll come to the launch!
"Letting a hundred flowers blossom and a hundred schools of thought contend is the policy for promoting progress in the arts and the sciences and a flourishing socialist culture in our land."
As someone (you?) observed, out of the tent, I am completely liberated.
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Copious beer drinking – possibly using the new brew Redemption from Tottenham – will equip you in directing your full attention to the tent.
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Liz says we aren't allowed to discuss my sexist or "fair comments" as its off topic.
HOL is going a bit Koberesque. How ironic.
Don't worry if you can't see the hypocrisy of this.
Mr Stanton,
It sounds like if someone is in the Labour Haringey Council cabinet they can vote against the majority,unlike in central government,but then they might do what they did to you ie take away the whip.So in many ways its the same as central government ie you get the sack if you dont tow the party line.Although no offical policy.
I think Mr Carter is suggesting an interesting theory: That Ms Kober and the Labour Party Group are so petty minded and thin skinned that they withdrew the whip from you because you made too many rude comments about them.If so its a bit silly.
If that theory is true and they can't handle a bit of rudeness (and I have read your twitter comments) then that is pathetic.Especially as you have told them you are offski in 2014.
It's not impossible that a woman aged in her 30's could be more thin skinned than an experienced man in his 50's.And she could get over emotional and effectively ban you just because she is a bit upset that you were a little bit critical or a bit rude on your twitter comments or on HOL. On your twitter comments you did have a pop,presumably because you are so frustrated at lack of progress at the council.
Which as a tory voter I can understand.And I thoroughly enjoyed your rude or accurate as I call them comments.Which are fair comment.
It's the principle of Haringey Council saying how they hate discrimination and then trying to silence people because they got a bit upset as Mr Stanton was critical
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It's not that its 'not allowed on HOL', DWGN- it's simple misogyny to suggest a woman should not be promoted or given an important job because she might have children and that a woman would be 'over emotional' compared to a man in a similar position.
Alan, I know, would be horrified to hear anybody using such prejudiced views in support of him and he, himself has stated above that discussions around her age and maternity leave " are a serious diversion from the real issues."
I'm also not sure that the local Tories would welcome your views either. Having met some of the formidable women in the Tory party here in Haringey, I'm pretty sure they would find your misogyny towards Cllr Kober as distasteful as the rest of the posters on this thread.
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