Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Two important dates for Route 29 this month
November 2011 is an eventful month for Route 29.
1. 20th November sees its 100th anniversary.
2. 26th November sees the last bendy bus on the route (and two weeks later with the withdrawal of the buses from Route 207, the end of the bendies in London).
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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lol - we have the problem of 4WD buggies too - seriously tho', why shouldn't parents with children in buggies and wheelchair users have the same accessibilty to public transport that others enjoy..?
I think TfL made the decision to burden the buses with all the buggies and wheelchairs because it considered it too expensive to fit out the all underground and suburban rail stations with lifts. Now it is removing exactly that possibility just to satisfy other lobby groups.. taxi drivers etc., etc.,
There is definitely a need for more lifts at Underground stations.
I can only speak for Germany here, but there has been an ongoing programme of fitting out stations with lifts/ramps where necessary for about 20 years now .. Most cities with underground stations have now acheived an 75% accesibilty level, some even higher than that. Yes, it is costly, but mobility is surely a right that everyone should have,, not just those who can afford to run their own cars.
Perhaps it''s time that Boris contacted some his friends in the financial sector to ask them to pay for a Lift Installation Programme, (as a first step) for all central London stations. No doubt these institutions could get some positive publicity by financing such a scheme and of course, tax breaks for doing it.
And please spare me the comments that the tube and railways are 'too full' for buggies to be taken on..
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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Re tube and access - when Ken was running transport via the GLC he took on listening to those who had previously been ignored in all sorts of municipal provision. The transport ctte investigated adding tube lifts etc but it showed up so many engineering difficulties that it was abandoned in favour of the £6 fixed-price taxi journeys and introducing accessible buses.
Now it would be unthinkable to exclude wheelchair users from any service - this has happened in one generation. It took the shift in municipal politics of the late 70s and 80s to enable this. Local govt then was really exciting and - hey - democratic. We had to get on with something while the tories were dismantling, Mark 1, what they could of the real big society.
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Permalink Reply by Geoff Amabilino on
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I thought wheelchair users had priority over buggies - even those already on the bus. Of course this can result in some very inventive language from the mothers. I've seen PCSOs remove a buggy owner who refused to give way on a 123 at Tottenham Hale - the wheelchair user just called them over. And yes, buggies are supposed to be folded up if the bus is crowded.
PS. I have come to like the bendies - they load and unload faster, so I get where I'm going quicker. And no waiting for the downstairs hoggers to move out of the way (or go upstairs - horror!) and let people get on the bus.
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Permalink Reply by Christopher Fowler on
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Sorry, pamish, there were so many sweary asterisks there I missed the "4x4" bit. My bad. I agree that trying to get on a bus with one of those all-terrain buggies is unreasonable. I suspect people who have them are only trying to "one-up" the other parents.
Geoff: Yes, the area on the bus is supposed to be priority for wheelchairs, then buggies, then others ... but having been getting my mother-in-law on and off buses in her wheelchair for some time, our experience is that when the buses are crowded, in particular, the driver will not intervene to ask buggies to be moved. How cooperative people with buggies are if you can get on the bus with a wheelchair varies a lot. Most are rather nice, some are really bloody-minded. You even get perfectly healthy adults who object to moving; probably just looking for a chance for a fight. One time, the guy was so awful I called the police ... he got off the bus at the next stop!
Re the tube and lifts, and "stairless" access and interchange: be fair to TFL - they are making more and more stations completely accessible without stairs. But it is obviously expensive and is taking a long time.
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Permalink Reply by Germana on
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people will have a different definition of what a big buggy is. See my earlier post, there are reasons why people need big pushchairs: safety, stability, ability to carry things if you don't' own a car, etc.
Some of the buggies that people think are way too big may - look carefully - be double pushchairs for people who have 2 small children. Do people who have more than one child not have the same right as anyone else to move around?
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Wel I have a newborn and a four year old and I can tell you that trying to fold a buggy while holding a baby and ensuring the eldest sits down safely is basically impossible. Of course if you have only one child and he is not very young, and if (if if if) you are not carrying anything else e.g. shopping, it's feasible. I used to do it when my first was 2-3 years old.
But it's not possible for everyone in all circumstances - and when it isn't possible we have to wait for several buses before getting on. This puts me off from going places without another adult helping me, and it's hard enough as it is being in this stage of life, without then having to hear people making offensive comments (it actually happens quite a lot - people seem to be upset by the fact I am a bit bulky when I move around on the bus or the pavement, but if people have alternative suggestions on how to move around with two children, carrying things they may need like snacks and changes of clothes, nappies, etc, without using a car, feel free to make suggestions - if I don't put all that stuff in the buggy then I'll need a large backpack which may also annoy people).
I know many people who think it's impossible to live without a car if you have children (I have two and I don't own a car), and now I am starting to understand why. It's not impossible, it's just that you get a lot of abuse by intolerant people while trying to get places.
The person who didn't let a wheelchair on behaved in an inexcusable way but why are you blaming the rest of us? That's just the behaviour of some individuals.
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Germana .. there are some self-centred people about who only think about themselves, while at the same time they preach 'community action' ..
I'm afraid people like that - those who shout and scream the loudest, unfortunately often get their own way
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I love seeing small children in small buggies and often have conversations with them in goo-talk. Sadly often their mums are too busy on the phone to talk to the babes themselves. Maybe they are doing it to make sure their phones don't get stolen.
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Permalink Reply by JulieB on
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Germana - I agree with all of the above, particularly how you cope without a car!
My experience of taking my 2 children on public transport wasn't a happy experience for anyone. Bendy buses were my saving grace, I could get on with my phil and ted double decker buggy. My son was very late walking so he needed to be in a buggy longer than normal and my back couldn't manage the alternative of a 6 month old baby in a sling with him in a small buggy.
My worst journeys were trying to get him to one of his many hospital appointments in town in rush hour. I really didn't have a choice about the timing of them - so just had to suffer the comments and intolerance from fellow passengers.
I got my one handed buggy folding down to an art - but not on a moving bus with bags, baby under arm and finding somewhere for the boy to sit. I'm a good multitasker but not that good.
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Permalink Reply by Alison P on
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Totally agree with these posts, Julie, Germana, MzMoore. Public transport isn't easy with kids who aren't mobile and I got completely fed up with being made to feel as though I shouldn't be daring to go on a bus with a child in a pram, esp when it was busy. I was lucky in that I didn't need to use buses much until my son was old enough to go in a very basic fold up pram but even that wasn't much fun.
Personally I will miss the bendy buses even though they weren't perfect, total bloody waste of money getting rid of them, just Boris posturing if you ask me.
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Permalink Reply by Katy Mendes on
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I'm with you all regarding the folding pushchairs on buses issue; my daughter's now of an age that if she is even in a buggy she's quite capable of getting out of it and sitting on my lap/a seat and I fold the buggy up, but if you'd asked me to take her out and fold the buggy up when she was a baby, when I was often laden down with laptop/shopping etc. I'd have basically been incapable of doing it unless the driver agreed to stop the bus for a few minutes and everyone got out of the way, oh yes and one of them offered to hold my daughter. Pamish is showing a distinct lack of empathy.
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