Rubbish!

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Permalink Reply by Hugh on February 18, 2008 at 14:10

Thanks for bringing this up Sara. It hasn't really been rasied as an issue on this site before. Hence it wasn't included in the survey. But quite a few people wrote about this issue in the "other" box on the survey. So if you haven't done the survey, take it. Get your neighbours to take it. It'll go to our councillors and make clear what our priorities are.

You may also be interested in this recent forum discussion about rubbbish.

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Permalink Reply by Sara on February 18, 2008 at 15:38

Hi Hugh
I've looked at the survey and I can't complete it, I'm afraid. There are many things on there that are just not a priority for me, at all (House conversion, satellite dishes, estate agents clutter...) and I can't put them all on "not at all" so it's just not working for me. Sorry! The survey does seem a bit of a cross between 'organic woolly hats' and NIMBY. What's wrong with converting under-occupied houses into more homes? Do satellite dishes really exercise the minds of our local residents (let them watch freeview!) ? I'd rather it addressed issues like rubbish, our lack of post-boxes, drug dealing on the corners... all the things that go along with us being the 'wrong' side of Ferme Park Road!
ps. What's all this about crime on the 29? Is it really just from one youtube entry?

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Permalink Reply by Hugh on February 18, 2008 at 16:59

No problem about the survey Sara. That's your prerogative. Much better not to complete it than provide data which you feel is inaccurate.

The issues included in the survey were those that have come up on this site over the past six months and therefore, I assumed, the ones that really matter to people. The additional issues you raise have not been mentioned until I sent out the survey. So it's great to get those surfaced. I will take note of what you say in your post and make sure that those are included in the feedback. And, let's hope these issues now become recognised causes for concern.

With regard to the issues that were included in the survey, I guess we have to respect that this is what concerns people. Many are perhaps less superficial than others may feel them to be. For example, the issue with houses in multiple occupation isn't about people objecting to houses being converted to flats. It's about unscrupulous landlords converting houses into use for high numbers of people for a range of uses. There have been many real problems as a result. You may be aware of this news story concerning a house in Warham Road where an HMO was used as a brothel. The chap was imprisoned for using women as sex slaves. Other HMOS are used by drug dealers, so and so forth.

I'm not whether its necessarily fair to describe this sort of issue as Nimbyism.

Let's take a look at Nimbyism - Not in My Back Yard.-ism. I guess it's about people saying they don't want to have to live with certain problems. But it’s got its negative connotations because of the underlying implication of wishing to pass the problem for someone else to deal with. And we know that many problems once solved in one area are likely to be displaced. Should this mean people just don't bother? It's a tough one.

The very real issues you raise about rubbish and drug dealers perhaps come from the same justifiable sense of not wanting to have to live with certain problems.

What I hope this site can do is to make a small contribution to our community understanding each other better, identifying problems and acting to resolve them (as well as all the other less heavy stuff). I hope we can start by each of us respecting others' views, taking some time to understand issues from other people's perspective, allowing for difference and working together to build something better. Not a simple agenda.

Was the discussion I pointed you to on rubbish any help at all?

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Permalink Reply by Sara on February 18, 2008 at 17:03

Righty-ho!
Yes the discussion was interesting, thanks. And I liked reading about the adolescent foxes.

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Permalink Reply by Liz on February 18, 2008 at 18:13

On the issue of house conversion, it may be linked with the things which you have highlighted as of concern such as crime and rubbish. If these houses were being converted as affordable housing for the elderly or young families, or even into flats to allow public sector workers to get a foot on the housing ladder, then it would be a welcome development .
That is not what is happening. Houses are being bought, converted very poorly then being over filled with tenants. A house in the same road as the brothel is now well known to the police as a pickpocket's house and is constantly being visited by the police. Also worrying is that young children are being forced to live in cramped and unsuitable conditions and being exposed to criminal activity.
These houses often generate large amounts of rubbish which the bin men will not remove and so it is dumped in the street. Landlords also dispose of old mattresses and people's belongings in the same way as well as the waste from their 'conversions' (two gas boilers in the passage for example).
Older members of the community who find one of these houses appearing are often subjected to intimidation and abuse. My own house was one of these HMOs and my elderly neighbour had to put up with threats, vandalism, dumped rubbish and noise at all hours from the tenants (all of whom were practising widespread fraud if the number of letters form debt collecting agencies that still arrive at my house are anyhting to go by.) The landlord was not interested and the agent did nothing.
David Lammy and the local councillors have all agreed that the the issue must be tackled and local residents groups are also concerned, as well as the police. (In a recent police operation in Westminster, 60 % of those arrested for pickpocketing etc gave an address in this area.)
This may be why people have identified HMOs as an important issue on the site survey.

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Permalink Reply by Sara on February 18, 2008 at 18:25

Thank you Liz and Hugh for explaining this. The question is clearly one of building regulations, environmental control, criminal law enforcement, enforcing tenants' rights and generally unscrupulous landlords and agents, rather than "house conversion" per se. We had a house nearby that was let in a horrible, dirty, overcrowded condition to tenants who clearly had no knowledge about their rights or access to them and we were all (3 houses) infested with cockroaches as a result. I felt so sorry for those tenants.

Apparently Harringay has one of the highest incidences for 'underground' brothels - almost exclusively trafficked women and girls. A vice-squad operation revealed a couple of years ago that there were up to 40 such places just on Green Lanes. They're all hidden away in those "Members Clubs" and such like.

Thanks again and keep up the good work!
Sara

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Permalink Reply by Carole on February 22, 2008 at 12:58

Hi

Just saw this, and wondered if you know about the service (not sure how new it is) available through Haringey Council's website... you can register complaints online on issues such as rubbish. I have registered a number of complaints about rubbish on Hermitage road/green lanes. The council responsed very quickly and have now agreed to put in a bin, and have started a rubbish collection scheme in the area...things are already much improved.

Good luck...

Carole

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