Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
The impact of the Housing Benefit cuts on the borough
A couple of pieces from Lucy Purdy at the Advertiser, 3rd November, 2010 edition. (Click images to view full size):
Tags for Forum Posts: cuts, housing benefit, public spending cuts
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Neville Collins on
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Reading these pieces have convinced me that Haringey is merely scaring people with the worst-case scenario. A better-performing local council, even if they disagreed with the benefit changes, would have started to put a plan in place to tackle the problem. It's a shame that they (Haringey) is behaving like they always do, in allowing a crisis to build, and then when it explodes they tend to blame somebody else. But this time, they have no excuse....
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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CARIS is not Haringey Council, Neville.
It's an independent charity which works closely with homeless families. The name stands for Christian Action and Response In Society. From what I know of them, the very last thing they'd do is to exaggerate, or present a "worse case scenario".
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Permalink Reply by Zena Brabazon on
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Hi Neville
Alan is right. CARIS is a highly respected organisation which has been working in Haringey for many years. They have long experience working with local families. I can assure you and Harringay On Line that the Council is not scare-mongering. Shelter and many other housing groups have sounded the alarm about the impact of the Coalition's housing benefit changes.
The Coalition seem to be banking on rents falling in line with housing benefit reductions but given the fact that it's difficult to get a mortgage and new build housing is minimal, it's unlikley the demand for private sector rented accommodaiotn will dry up. So, why should rents fall?
A big danger in all of this remains the rise of the slum landlord as people who are desperate have to move house. One of our challenges will be enforcing against poor practice by these landlords.
Zena Brabazon
Councillor, St. Ann's Ward
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Permalink Reply by James Atherton on
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Neville is right that Haringey Council is scaring people, the first piece does mention Claire Kober's alarmist statements from her as Head of Haringey Council, and CARIS(which is not the Council) make similar alarmist noises in the second article.
Housing benefits, along with other benefits, government and council spending have to be cut, there is no doubt about this. The seemingly large cuts proposed by the coalition do not stop the wasteful overspending. This year we as a nation were forecast, in March, to over spend by: £178bn - or 12.6% of GDP (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8569418.stm).
I hear a lot of alarm, in these articles, but what is lacking are solutions. I do not have any, I am not an expert on social housing. I do think though that controlling what landlords can charge would create more problems than it solves. We do not want to drive a number of landlords or their businesses into bankruptcy/insolvency by forcing them to cut their rent and no longer be able to meet their mortgage repayments. This would create more homeless people and damage a number of small business that are critical for the recovery.
I am worried that this is just the tip of the iceberg and to fix the huge issue of national debt and public over spending a large number of people are going to be affected. The only other direction is to continue spending and bankrupt the country, this is not in any way a feasible option...
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Scaremonger
"One who occupies himself in spreading alarming reports; an alarmist. Hence as v. intr., to spread alarming reports; scaremongering vbl. n., the action of a scaremonger; the spreading of alarming reports; also as ppl. a."
Alarmista. One addicted to raising alarms; hence, who raises alarm on very slight grounds, or needlessly; a panic-monger.
(Source: Oxford English Dictionary)
So is Claire Kober a scaremonger and an alarmist? Am I or my partner Zena Brabazon 'crying wolf' and raising this issue needlessly on slight grounds? Is Caris? Or Shelter? Or a number of other people and agencies?
Perhaps you think nothing is really going to happen and so there's little to be alarmed about?
Or maybe you believe that even if the warnings are accurate it will affect only a handful of scroungers? Or possibly, you are concerned and even feel some alarm and compassion for the families and individuals affected. But you see no alternative to hitting the poorest and most vulnerable the hardest?
Of course, you may think that as I'm a Labour councillor, "Well he would say that, wouldn't he?". Well, I wouldn't. I need some evidence. Have you looked at Shelter's maps Zena linked to? Please take a few minutes to read this page on Shelter's website and then tell HoL members whether you think Shelter are scaremongering and alarmist.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor.)
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I would say alarmist, on point 2:
alarmist [əˈlɑːmɪst]
n
1. a person who alarms or attempts to alarm others needlessly or without due grounds
2. a person who is easily alarmed
I don't think you are crying wolf; I think these are real issues.
I feel concern and compassion only a heartless monster would not do so. I do not feel alarm. I cannot think of a alternative to cutting spending and increasing taxation. Please if you see a solution not mentioned here, I would like to hear and discuss it.
I did look at the shelter home page and it paints a worrying picture. I think Shelter are neither scaremongering nor alarmist, I think they are reporting facts, and their position.
I am sure many MPs will vote against cuts, saving families certain hardship in the short term. This will just mean there are cuts elsewhere, causing other hardships. A nation can spend money it doesn't have, but eventually it must be paid back and the books balanced.
Unfortunately these are the times we all live in as we have spent beyond our means.
(Not a politician or councillor)
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@Alan and Zena, sorry if I have misread the piece. However, in both your roles as Haringey councillors, you have a shared responsibility in order to tackle this problem. I wasn't attacking the CARIS piece, I was merely criticising the way the council is approaching the issue of benefit cuts. Just attacking the present government's proposals isn't going to get us anywhere. The problems with the causes of homelessness within the borough would have been less severe if more social homes were built, reducing the pressure on housing benefit, but with Haringey's reputation, very few homes of any kind actually get built at all.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Well Neville, what are your ideas?
I had one for a local Haringey pound backed by the council in that they would accept it for payment of council tax. If they paid their staff partially in this currency then that would not be money leaving the borough for the superstores of the home counties. Ho hummm...
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Mr Hoyle, perhaps you could explain how you see Housing Benefit for a family's rent "burning holes in their pockets".
As for "bedsit hell" are you saying that it's going to make no difference to "the east" of the borough, if thousands more families from central London are forced to move in? Or are you saying the opposite: that the numbers affected will be "negligible"?
I'm a bit confused about how you see this. Please help me out.
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"We must care for each other more, and tax each other less."
Bill Archer
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Thank you, Mr Hoyle. That gives me and other people a clearer idea of your views. Though I'm still puzzled why housing benefit should "burn a hole" in anyone's pocket - aside from the landlord who actually gets it, of course.
I don't have a suitable literary quotation which might help ease your resentment. Although the Zen story about the blind men and the elephant might suggest that it's often helpful to view things from more than one angle.
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Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on
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I agree with Alan and Zena that there is an alarm to be raised, yet . . . .
. . . . I can't help contrasting Keith Flett's balanced, moderate expression: "the result of this could be considerable population movement" with the words Lucy Purdy quotes from (or ?puts into the mouth of?) Claire Kober: "Haringey will be flooded by poor families . . . . families driven out of pricier London boroughs suddenly inundating Haringey"., backed up by Claire's "massive migration into Haringey".
In the original The Advertiser topped this piece with a splash headline: "Huge influx expected as . . . . etc" with the caption to its Haringey photo: "Home truth: Haringey could be inundated by new families, warns Council leader".
Alarmist? Scaremongering? I'm not sure, but I'm sure language matters. Some of this language seems to be culled from the same lexicon as will later provide extremists of a different hue with words like hordes, swarming,vermin. . . .
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