Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Haringey Library fees
Hi All
Just a quick reminder to everyone to check when their library books are due back. Haringey Libraries have just increased their fines to 20p per item per day- or £1.40 per item per week. (Yes we shold be responsible for returning on time but there's a real incentive to now). Also CD loans are reduced from 3 weeks to week.
Shame as this is much more expensive than libraries like Westminster & Corporation of London who buy many new books for theor cutomers every week. Wonder where all this extra income is going to....
Just a quick reminder to everyone to check when their library books are due back. Haringey Libraries have just increased their fines to 20p per item per day- or £1.40 per item per week. (Yes we shold be responsible for returning on time but there's a real incentive to now). Also CD loans are reduced from 3 weeks to week.
Shame as this is much more expensive than libraries like Westminster & Corporation of London who buy many new books for theor cutomers every week. Wonder where all this extra income is going to....
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on
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No, Giles. A real incentive for Overdue Library Abusers would be 20p per item per day, doubling daily to a max of £102.40 per item per 10 days. This might help to keep our libraries open, with no reduction in hours, through the difficult years ahead. I'm not paying any Council Tax to Westminster or the City.
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Permalink Reply by Giles Christian on
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I hope you're right. Would hate to see our libraries close becaue they've priced themselves out of the market and people on low incomes stop going. Both Westminter & City of London libraries are very vibrant compared. Of course they have more income to start with but they do have a very different policy of welcoming people to use their services rather than threatening them. Simple economics mean that their footfall and therefore income is greater. In difficult times incentive will bring recovery faster than disincentive, surely. Or will degrading the offer bring them a greater return? We'll see whether they survive. I really hope they do
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Your figures, please for the comparison with Westminster, with the source of the information?
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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The council should shut down many things before they touch the library service, a council function of real value that many people use and appreciate.
I have often thought that overdue fees were too low and I say that as a library supporter. If higher fees help libraries stay open in LBH, then that's surely a good thing? I am fortunate to live close to Stroud Green library and its a real asset to the community. It wasn't always like that. During the last few years, there's been a renaissance in libraries, no small thanks to the Head of the Library Service.
One of the historical problems in LBH with libraries is that its a service that's been disregarded by the council. It has been though of as middle class pursuit. At one time the administration was shuffled around between other departments, at one time attached to Sport (?). It has not been seen as part of continuing education, let alone education, which it ought to be.
Around 2001, a local councillor who was prepared to see SG Library close, said he was proud of defending the education budget – not considering that libraries might have some educational value. That person, a teacher, is no longer a councillor. Stroud Green library was deliberately run down during the 1990s, but now is practically a paradigm for a small branch library.
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All I'm suggesting is that higher fees will be a barrier to poorer families using our libraries, when membership to libraries in other boroughs prove much more attractive. If footfall to Haringey libraries falls, so will the funding and branches will close. If our libraries can incentivise greater membership, rather than put people off through disproprotionate charges they are more likely to survive tough times. Is there a beneift to a community in lending books if you're prepared to charge more in fees than the face value of buying the book? Haringey council thinks there is. Sadly branches must close if you look at this from an econometric point of view, however you do the calculations, unless of course huge subsidisation comes from somewhere. It's either a public service or a services for the well off, surely?
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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The answer to higher fees is take the books back on time. Then other people can have a chance to read them too.
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Right, John. Is it only grumpy old codgers like us who follow the rules when we join a club?
Giles, it's not the book's face value - more its continued availability. Think altruistically rather than econometrically.
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Like you, I love our libraries very much. If they can survive on good will rather than money we will all benefit from the great service we've had up until now. I guess I misguidedly thought that if fines were affordable, libraries generated income to buy new books. When unaffordable, membership declines and so grants become unavailable. In that case, yes, bringing books back on time does rotate the existing book stock but doesn't bring growth. My worry is the cuts councils need to make - if libraries aren't a growth area they may well be high on the list for freezing, or worse, axing.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Oh dear, I feel this conversation is about to be merged with this one by site admin.
We laughed like mad at Northern Rock for their "completely ridiculous" business model. It's not that I don't believe that this is how libraries are funded Giles, I just think it has parallels with a "surely they saw that coming" financial collapse.
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Permalink Reply by Maddy on
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You can also renew online or over the phone, up to six times per book.I've had some out over a long period this way. I do occasionally slip up and end up paying fines but i think of it a bit as my subscription to keep libraries going. Children's borrowing does not inur any overdue fines.
Haringey libraries have been fantastic at ordering and even buying books that I want to read over the years, instead of having to buy them myself.
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The level of library fines on overdue books is a valid concern for everyone who values libraries. But it's a relatively small issue given the funding threat faced by our libraries nationally and locally.
So I look forward to reading contributions on Harringay Online with some discussion and helpful links about what's happening elsewhere in London and in Haringey. As a councillor, of course, I haven't yet been told.
(Though, please, no special pleading from people who want a free let for a library hall, just for their group.)
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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This seems like a good time to do a quick advert. The Stroud Green Library Friends group has a Yahoo group - a forum for library users and supporters. You can join it here.
I was also going to mention the fact that you can easily renew your books online (you need to get a pin- just ask the local library for it) or on the phone but Maddy beat me to it. Your library card also gives you access to free audio and ebooks and reference materials that are normally buried behind a paywall.
This is all free and probably the only way a low income family will be able to access a wide range of books and services. Where else where they go to get these things if the library closes? There is no charge for membership so I can't see how the library will price itself out of the use of people simply because there is a charge for keeping the book too long (and its not as though its not easy to renew). Libraries also provide spaces for people to study and do homework all for nothing using free reference books and access to the internet. What would replace this?
Haringey Libraries are in the top 1 per cent of library authorities in the country. Like Alan I would like to see how the two places you mention are doing better (after all we can all learn from each other)
I have also used the paying reservation service (now a £1) but they have managed to dig up some very obscure tomes for my studies that would have cost me 20 or 30 quid to buy. My kids use the library all the time but no fines often means that books they request (also free for kids) don't come back to the library - you need a little incentive to return the book
It, of course, suits a certain political agenda to suggest that libraries are some sort of middle class benefit and should be put under the eye of the cutsmeisters. Hardly anyone agrees with this view
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