Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Should other Haringey residents give Local MPs their personal views on the Gaza Tragedy?
I've begun composing letters to our local MPs David Lammy and Catherine West about today's BBC news on Gaza and linked issues. I suggest that other HoL members consider writing or emailing independently with their own personal messages, with their thoughts and feelings on the topic.
To be precise the news item I listened to also referred to the expected visit to London of the President of Israel. It reported too, on a massive leaflet drop on Gaza City calling on all residents to move south to a supposed "safe" area. Despite this news bulletin describing the lack of water and food there. Also reports from a few Gaza City residents that they have family members physically unable to move.
That news bulletin also included "experts" who claimed that Israel was not practising genocide. And that the Israeli Attack Forces were targeting buildings and not people.
To be fair to the BBC's own journalist, she did press hard on these various "expert" claims.
Replies are closed for this discussion.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter
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IN the context of the current visit of the US Secretary of State to Israel:
This morning, a correspondent of the Christian Science Monitor in Tel Aviv commented on Israel's recent bombing in Doha, Qatar.
She said that both Mossad and the head of Israel's army had opposed the proposed attack.
But Prime Minister Netanyahu was so keen on trying to kill peace-conference representatives, that he ordered his Air Force to undertake a riskier aerial bombing.
The attack on a US ally underscores the recklessness and detachment of the Israeli Government. And especially their leader, untethered and rampaging.
Could Trump not curtail the madness of his friend Bibi, if he chose?
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Permalink Reply by Iris Allan on
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Today is September 11th, a reminder of what the Islamist terrorists stand for and why Israel is fighting them. We arm and support the Israelis because they are fighting on our behalf.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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I'm typing this on ll September around 11am. I'm very disappointed that some contributors to this thread have not avoided personal insults. (Though personally I am too old to bother in the slightest about people calling me silly names.)
At the same time, I am pleased that people have been honest in frankly revealing their emotions and biases. Hopefully that enables us all to read and understand our neighbours a little better.
Although I'm unsure of the point in continuing this thread much further. I hope Hugh as our admin will consider leaving it here as a record and source for future learning. If nothing else we can now have doubts about former UK politicians expressing "unequivocal support for Israel". And why bombing a peace conference is insane.
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… personal insults. ~ it was Margaret Thatcher who said,
I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left.
And, it's sometimes said (often misattributed to Churchill) that The first casualty of war is truth ~
In this context, we can prefer to believe journalists (and outside organisations), or to believe statements from a government at war with some of its neighbours.
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The rabid attacks on the inital post, totally disregard the 64,000 Palestinan dead, mostly civilian, and hundreds of thousands displaced in the genocidal attacks of the two years since the October 7th attack (in which BTW 1200 - not thousands - died, a third military and two-thirds civilians), and the decades of illegal occupation, expulsion, dispossession, and oppression of Palestinian Arab Christians and Muslims that preceded it. They reflect the way in which how, sadly, many angry people moved by hateful prejudice are falling for the dangerous counterfactual nonsense pumped out, on this and other issues, by today's equivalent of the demagogues and ideologies that gave us the Nazis and Fascists in the 1920s and 1930s. I wish there was a vaccine that injected humanity into such people. And yes, do write to your MPs.
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re 'hate marches'.
On all of the marches in support of Palestinians and against the war in Gaza hundreds of Jews and Jewish organisations lead the marches. In the recent arrest of 800+ people in London for holding a card saying "I oppose genocide, I support Palestine Action" Jews volunteered to be arrested. Those present include "Holocaust survivors and descendants of Holocaust survivors" group, and many others.
Ive tried to upload photos but not having any luck.
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Hypothetically, how would Britain benefit by recognising 'Palestine', withdrawing moral support and ceasing military and intelligence cooperation with Israel?
I fail to see an upside. It simply isn't in our national interest. We would betray our own Jewish community and embolden the Islamists and their supporters within (both the genuinely evil and the misguided innocents).
Arguments about 'doing the right thing' are meanginglessly subjective.
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THE bitter—partly religious based—hatred on both sides will continue, but the UK Govt's moral and military support for one side only, need not.
Netanyahu's recent bombing of negotiators in Doha even earned a tut-tut from Trump.
The alliance of Keir Starmer and his New Labour Govt, with Netanyahu's Govt, and the latter's continued killing of grossly disproportionate numbers of Palestinian civilians, cannot be in the long-term national interests of this country.
#WarCrimes
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Hello again, Iris Allan,
If you genuinely want an answer to your questions about Britain recognising Palestine, you might try an online search. I would suggest for example, Reuters.com. As for "withdrawing moral support and ceasing military and intelligence cooperation" as you mention, I see that as a simple decision by the U.K. to avoid further complicity in the horrendous Israeli genocide.
As for "betray[ing] our own Jewish community" then surely you realise by now that there is no such monolithic Jewish community with a single view in the U.K. Do you live in Britain? Then you must have noticed the huge number of Jews on marches calling for peace. There are even many Israelis with similar views.
You write that: "Arguments about 'doing the right thing' are meanginglessly subjective." But isn't pursuing justice one of Judaism's central tenets? I strongly doubt that even Zionism teaches a new religion which includes the killing and starving of children; and bombing babies?
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A Greater Israel (and a Greater Russia) is a goal that has led to greater killing. Great Britain could halt support for Netanyahu's genocidal government. Would that not be the minimum that a decent, civilised country would do?
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Hello Allan Stanton and Clive Carter. You have both written a paragraph or two but neither of you have said how it would be in Britain's national interest to withdraw support for Israel. How would we gain?
On the point of justice, I would argue that Israel is indeed seeking justice...justice for those massacred on 7th October and to prevent it from happening again.
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Iris Allan, what about justice after the expulsion of 800,000 Muslim and Christian Palestinians from their homeland in 1948-49, and that of 400,000 more in 1967? Or justice for the many tens of thousands Palestinians killed, the thousands (including children) taken hostage to be held without trial in Israeli prisons, and the Jewish settler vigilantes terrorising and dispossessing Palestinians in the West Bank? If the killing of civilians on October 7th are condemnable, and they are, how much more so is what the UN has confirmed is Israeli genocide? Are you arguing that being complicit in Israeli genocide is in the British national interest?
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