Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
General Election: BBC Report on Gaza this morning
Dear David Lammy and Catherine West.
As a former Labour Party member I have met and spoken and listened to you over many years. Long enough so I can confidently imagine how you will feel when you see the photos and reports on the BBC website this morning.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd119dz515wo
When will you publicly cry out?
Yours sincerely and with best wishes,
Alan Stanton
Former Labour Party Member
Formerly an elected Labour councillor, constituency and ward secretary.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Anonymous Bosch on
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Cue the apologists in 3...2...1
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Why ask people to play a guessing game? Is genocide a matter of games?
If you have something serious to say then please try to say and write it clearly. It may be helpful to all of us trying to make some sense of the apparent insanity in many corners of the world. Places where humans appear determined to deny and unlearn the best our species has found. Burning each page in each book in every school and university. Smashing and re-smashing each stone. Perhaps because it might contain fragments of banned phrases such as "Do Not Murder".
Cue the peacemakers? 3...2...1
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I've said my bit on the other Gaza thread.
I am just waiting for the apologists to make their excuses and then I can counter their points, but perhaps they realise their position is untenable and are therefore lying low.
And for the record, the YouTube footage of Lammy scurrying off stage like a frightened rat when he is confronted by a protester is most unedifying
https://youtube.com/shorts/vnYUaNopW2I?si=ASmHRJJKOW-o-yh9
And to think he fancies himself as Foreign Secretary swanning around the middle east
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Bosch - Some suggestions:
● Critics might have more success persuading politicians by avoiding abuse like calling them "a scurrying off ... frightened rat".
● I doubt David Lammy has any illusions about "swanning around the Middle East". He can plainly see how restricted Blinken is until and unless Biden gives him the signal.
● Some relatives of mine outside London told me about Labour members they met who say they're hoping that Starmer will change after he wins. Insread I suggest that if you know anyone living in Starmer's Constituency you urge them to vote for Andrew Feinstein to unseat Starmer
● If you haven't already done so, do please take a look at U.S. Diplomat Hala Rharrit who has resigned because she knows that U.S. Gaza policy makes no sense. Spread the word and maybe more insiders will have the courage to speak up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLKTckkYAZI
● Spread the word as well about similar news items you come across. There appears to be movement in public opinion. It must be obvious to even most rigid Israeli propagandists that they have squandered the huge sympathy after 7th October. Pretending that criticism of current Israeli Genocide is based on antisemitism requires a high level of delusion.
● If you have time please take a look at the books - or videos - of historian Ilan Pappé and Norman Finkelstein and journalists Amira Hass and Gideon Levy.● Please don't follow your plan and "wait for for the apologists to make their excuses and then you can counter their points".
Too many people on both sides will die and or be injured while this waiting goes on.
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Both are supporters of Labour Friends of Israel so support bombing homes, mosques, schools and hospitals. Pictures of mothers burying their babies mean nothing to them. This is the depth to which our political class have sunk.
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If Philip, you and I assume there is no point in talking together. Or with "them". Because 'their' minds are shut tight. Then nothing changes.
You're angry with David and Catherine?
Please tell them why. And in calm reasonable terms. Maybe tell 'm that being an "honourable member" of a Parliament or a "cabinet minister" - or other puffed-up nonsense - is far less important than being a moral human being, Who, for example, says 'No' to murder as a modest first ethical step.
A little further along this moral route we might arrive at the need for national and international courts binding everyone. With rules about such issues as thou shall not covet thy neighbours' beachfront property.
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P.S. I met someone who told me they were a member of Labour Friends of Israel. They said that what Hamas did on 7th October and what the Israeli Government and army were doing in response were both evil.
Philip you have assumed that membership of Labour Friends of Israel by our local Members of Parliament, Catherine West and David Lammy means they: "support bombing homes, mosques, schools and hospitals. Pictures of mothers burying their babies mean nothing to them."
Those assumptions in themselves erect a soundproof wall between you and them. The possibility of dialogue is cut off. No exchanging views or - crucially - changing minds.
Maybe you know the work of Ilan Pappé and Ghada Karmi? (Everyone interested in Israel/Palestine should read their books.) In this video they sit together recalling the moments years before when she saw he was liberating himself from Zionism.
https://youtu.be/vx0QUTui6GY?feature=shared
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I have absolutely no respect for David Lammy after living in Bruce Grove, part of his Tottenham constituency, for 13 years and observing his ambiguous positions in various pro community centred campaigns. I think he is politically very weak and has no moral backbone or compass - he is more weather vane than leader. It is very sad indeed for someone who seems to have had so much potential.
That said, I totally understand his quickly leaving the stage in this circumstance. Do not forget that 2 UK MPs have been murdered in public in the last few years. He is after all a human being!
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It's good to see your name posted, JJB. As I recall, your contributions on HoL were always worth reading.
My experience of David Lammy over the years has been very different and far more positive than yours. However you may have seen my recent plea to both him and Catherine West for them to stand up publicly against the Genocide in Gaza.
I do understand why many UK politicians are afraid to speak out on issues when enormous sums of cash and almost the entire right-wing media are lined up. The political assassination of Jeremy Corbyn stands as a warning to anyone who - like Corbyn - tries to tell the truth as she or he sees it.
On the other hand did Starmer and his pals really have to use their power to boot-out or exclude even the slightest signs of left-wingness? Hopefully a few of Starmer's place-people will lose. Though even if voters deliver some delightful surprises will the stodge system look after right-wing rejects?. Imagine that Andrew Feinstein squeezed ahead of Steer Calmer. Would Sir Keir re-emerge as Lord Starmer? Maybe with similar magic transforming Ian Duncan Smith were he to lose to Faiza Shaheen?
Perhaps JJB, you've got a keener analysis of what has gone wrong and how to fix it?
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Hey,
I now live back in France where my fellow citizens, in their desperation against the system, just like the ignorant pro-Brexshit voters, just may be about to put the neo-fascists in charge after our stoopid President self indulgently dissolved his minority parliament….we are in the sh*t!Does anyone really pay attention to history. Look at how Hitler got into power! There are even jewish voters here in France who prefer tto vote for a neo fascist party founded by ex SS memebers such iit is that they have fallen for the propaganda that the radical left is anti semitic. Go figure. It will not end well!
Re Lammy, I go on my experience of re his ‘extreme fence sitting’ in the Wards Corner debacle. He could have said the scheme was not in the interest of the local community and lobbied OPENLY for the interests of locals to be protected. IMO His behaviour was despicable. Just look at the site now. Doh! Call me harsh if you will. He occupies a position of importance so if he isn’t willing ‘to do for his community’ who can we expect to do so?
Ditto on the cynical Spurs take over of North Tottenham where local businesses and residents have been excluded in the interests of an overseas owned multinational and corporate gain. Also the stadium causes disruption on event days. It could have been located on the brownfield site next to Ikea and the High road sute devoted to proper urban redevelopement.
And just his attitude…I just can’t see why he benefits from the indulgence. His background is similar to my father’s. His children will be like me! And that is why he is disappointing to me! With his background one could have expected some more thinking ‘out if the box’, instead he sems to have aligned himself with very orthodox thinking
So there is no profound ‘analysis’, just first hand observation.I’ll stop there because I can continue with my ‘analysis’ on the short sightedness of so many of our politicians. The alternatives are not hard to see and back. Why can’t they do that and promote win-win outcomes?
Sigh sigh sigh!
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