Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
It will only ever be Black Boy Lane
I'm still shaking my head at this. The Council has spent so much on something noone wants. I don't know why the English don't stand up to this sort of thing. It would never happen in Turkey or Greece. This guy sums it up perfectly.
Tags for Forum Posts: blackboy lane name change
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Don on
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Michael — Exactly my point: full participation by those directly concerned, not a top-down imposition by the local authority.
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Permalink Reply by Sarah on
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I was involved in the resident engagement on the name change. The "approved" names were nothing to do with politics, they had to be approved by the Fire Brigade - emergency access being the most important consideration! Our staff did some research and came up with some suggestions, and we also asked residents for suggestions. One name that was (iirc) suggested by a resident was rejected by the fire brigade as being too similar to other names in the area. We were able to get this response from them before balloting residents, so we knew the four names on the ballot were all acceptable to the fire brigade. Residents were asked to rank their preferences and the result was very clear - and yes it was a name that had been suggested by a resident in the course of our engagement.
It was a difficult time to conduct a consultation as we could not hold in person meetings because of Covid and some residents were clinically vulnerable. Instead we had two socially distanced drop ins, two online meetings and knocked on every door, including with speakers of Somali and Bengali, the two most widely spoken languages after English.
The ballot was run by our Elections team and participation was high.
We committed to meeting any costs to residents of the name change. Only one person had an issue that I'm aware of. No one else got in touch - and I made sure I was easy to contact as I really didn't want it to be difficult for anyone!
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Very interesting. Thanks Sarah.
When you say 'our staff' are you referring to council staff or are you part of an external consultancy firm?
What criteria were used when your staff did the initial research to identify the shortlist of names?
I ask because one of the many criticisms of the renaming process (other than the decision to do it in the first place) is that only names from the local Carribean community were proposed. This was surprisingly when there are so many people from other backgounds whose names could also have been considered and whose achievements were arguably more notable.
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It was all done in house.
Our Arts and Culture team was involved in the research and local connection was the main criteria for all names (person or otherwise) proposed. I'm not sure you are correct about only makes from the Caribbean community but can't check that as I'm currently thousands of miles from my laptop.
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I'm sorry Sarah. I thought you meant you were involved in the name change of Black Boy Lane. It's only after reading Don's post below that I realised you are talking about Camden.
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Ah I see.
And I've just remembered one of the other names that was proposed - Noor Inayat Khan, the spy princess who was sent to occupied France as a wireless operator in the second world war.
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Sarah — Still interesting that residents went for a non-specific geographical name rather than a person.
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Sarah — This is really interesting and amplifies what I had picked up from local and national press. The key difference from Haringey is that you seem to have fully involved those directly affected — the residents — in the whole process by taking their suggestions on board, whereas our council apparently chose two names only, then just told everyone they had to agree to one or the other. In the event, actual residents of BBL showed they didn’t want any change at all, but the council went ahead anyway. Granted, it was perhaps easier for Camden to canvass opinions when everyone involved was in a block of flats, but Haringey made only a fraction of the effort and presented the council leader’s plan as a done deal, with only a binary choice for those affected.
By the way, how much did the whole exercise cost Camden? Probably not £180,000!
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It was in the tens of thousands, I can't remember exactly how much and I do know it cost a bit more than we hoped. We had new signs made to go on the block and on the estate, and the lift panels in the two lift lobbies had to be redone too as they had the block name on them. And there would have been the cost of all of the printed material we sent to residents.
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Just so it doesn't pass without challenge: I would really like to see fewer links to racist youtubers and fewer comments like the following one from 'Cem' on this forum.
"Ahmet, Khan and Ejiofor aren't exactly old English family names. Now I'm not suggesting they should not be able to propose changes or take part in democratic processes but they won't value the heritage of England in the same way as people whose families have lived here for generations and generations."
I personally didn't think the renaming was necessary, but if the people opposed to it are like this, then I am very happy to join the opposite side. I will support the renaming wholeheartedly if it means I avoid rubbing shoulders with people who think like this.
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The term 'racist' has become so subjective that it is starting to loose all objective meaning so there is little point in me challenging you on that. Believe what you want.
However, I do find it odd that you don't recognise that people are more likely to understand and value their own culture and heritage than someone else's. English people are conspicuously absent from the groups of people making decisions about renaming roads, schools and parks across Haringey, not to mention the rest of London. As a thought experiment consider the justifiable outcry if a group deciding on the renaming of the Bernie Grant centre, for example, did not include any people of West Indian heritage.
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