Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Listen to Radio 4's HMO item (including Haringey) on iplayer
Click here + drag the player indicator to 27 minutes into the programme.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Stuart on
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What a cop-out statement from the council - blaming the legislation.
Let's be clear: while there is nothing in the statutes that requires a council to allow third parties to comment on Certificate of Lawfulness applications, and nothing that requires the planning officers to use their initiative and make a bit of independent enquiry into the bona fides of evidence submitted in support, there is also nothing that says they CANNOT do so. Just their own indifference/ineptitude/negligence (delete as appropriate). As I was told recently by a planning officer in relation to a COL application which I have opposed and which has now turned out to be utterly fraudulent, our comments are apparently irrelevant and they believe they shouldn't even be allowing us to comment, let alone taking any notice of our comments. In Victoria's case on the show, how difficult would it have been for the planning officer to put in a quick call to the power company to check if the bill was genuine? Want to know how bad this problem is? Check out the COL history for 49 Warham Road. The council's own council tax valuation showed clearly this was a single property. A photocopy (not original) of some utility bills was provided allegedly showing the property as flats back in 2002. Despite evidence to clearly show this may be a fraudulent application, did the Planning Officer bother to call any of the utilities to check if the copies of the bills were genuine? Nope, couldn't be bothered.
In addition, the council refuse to put the supporting evidence for COLs online. Even though the evidence is a public file and you can easily go and view it at their offices. And even though the application form itself specifically warns applicants that their supporting evidence will be put online!! All of which makes it even harder for members of the public to oppose these.
A few of us on HOL have (with the awesome support of Alan Stanton) been very actively working on a few examples of clear-cut cases where COLs have been granted on the most spurious of evidence (and this programme didn't touch on that at all).
How sad that Haringey blames the law for its own inability to devise a sensible process around COL applications which actually provides a public service rather than turning a blind eye to the public's constant defrauding.
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As an aside to this, given the large-scale evidence of fraud which is now being uncovered, if you have ANY doubts at all about a recent COL application/grant for a conversion in your street, I urge you to please go and review the evidence submitted by the applicant down at the Planning office. You may be in for an unpleasant surprise. If you find, e.g. photocopies of utility bills, not originals, or statutory declarations that are photocopies, do some investigative work - is the solicitor who swore it genuine? Did they use their stamp? Is the person who swore the declaration on the electoral register? Can you track them down? Do the bills look dodgy? Energy/power companies will happily tell you if a bill is genuine as long as you give them the customer reference number.
The more evidence we uncover of the appalling defects in the system, the better our chances of changing it.
Thanks.
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Permalink Reply by Alison P on
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What did people think of the programme? I only heard the last five minutes (starting with the govt minister saying he didn't think there were any problems with the law), will listen to it on iplayer tomorrow. Was it good?
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Permalink Reply by VIX on
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I think the council got away with murder yesterday.
I was also quoted out of context which I am not happy about.
I clearly told the BBC that the planning office had been alerted to the illegal conversion of the house next door to us by a local councilor, yet no action or proper investigation was undertaken. I also stated that the planning office gave us the run around for almost a year until I got David Lammy on board. My interview was edited to make the council look good and sex up the show without showing that in our case the council had made gross errors in proceedure. I thought the whole point of the program was to expose the system and expose the officers who not do a propper job and leave to us to clear up their mess. Maybe the programe should have been called Fudge the Facts.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Vix, It's always frustrating to be quoted out of context. I sympathise. But you shouldn't underestimate what you achieved. I thought your piece was useful and you made a very clear point about how obvious the deception with the gas bill was. Let's see this as a significant step in an ongoing campaign. Well done you.
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Couldn't agree more Vix. The council must be delighted. The programme has resulted in zero pressure on them to do anything to change their procedures.
But don't stress. We are on the case :-)
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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Very interesting. Obviously the law wasn't well designed in the first place. Couple that with a non-existent housing policy where house building has slowed to a trickle, an economy of the last 10 years that relied on inflated house prices for a borrow & spend binge and you have a ripe situation for tenants desperate for accommodation falling into the arms of these rouge landlords. Labour's Britain. Disaster.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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I am far from defending this government's record on housing, it is a disgrace but the rot set in a long time before ...
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Permalink Reply by PeterPiper on
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Yes Liz, you are absolutely right. Ever since Thatcher & her friends decided to sell off council homes and tried to convince us all that the 'market' will solve all the problems of society we have been stuffed. Couple this with the fact that councils were denied the right to use the monies raised from building new social housing has only compounded the problems.
What is even more depressing is that when Labour came to power, they did nothing to reverse this policy or any other Tory policies.
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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@PP and Liz .. yes of course you're right..
The tories banging on about how bad 'New Labour' is, when all it is in fact doing, is continuing the tories carefully laid policies.. Carefully laid out in that they help those that already have quite a bit stashed away to rake in more, without helping those at the bottom of the pile... Yes, there are indeed people that do need help and who perhaps don't have the confidence or the 'way with all' to get on in society..
Before Thatcher, the tory party was a 'decent' party ..since then it's become the party for those with the biggest elbows... and what's so depressing is that they are now aping New Labour which in it's turn aped Thatcher's Tories -
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True enough about Thatcher and it is a scandal that Labour have done little to change things for the better with housing policy.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Going back to the Face the Facts programme. For one thing, it showed how pooling information by members of a local community can put together a 'jigsaw' of knowledge. We've now discovered how some owners and landlords have been 'gaming' the Planning system by exploiting its loopholes.
We also know that Planning Departments - not just in Haringey - have failed to keep ahead of this.
Just as important is how internet tools are playing a central part in letting us gather, share, and collaboratively analyse what we're finding. (Even old-fashioned last-century media - like radio - are extended with online podcasts. As Hugh's heading shows.)
So Clay Shirky is probably right to say something very important and exciting is happening. And that, potentially at least, it challenges top-down command-and-control structures.
Can Haringey Urban Environment Department - and staff in other local councils - meet this challenge constructively? They can; and I think they will.
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In the meantime, can I please ask help from HoL members regarding one of the converted properties we’ve been inquiring into. Has anyone contact details for Patricia Constance Lamb, or Margaret C. Lamb- who some years ago lived at 69 Effingham Road N8? If so, would you please send me a private message. Thanks.
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