Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Cash or invoice?
A local tradesperson recently did a job for me and quoted a price on the phone in advance. In the phone call, they asked if I’d be paying cash or wanted an invoice and I opted for the latter so as to have a record of the job. However, when the invoice turned up it had an extra 20% added to the quoted price; they’re not VAT-registered, and told me it’s because “an invoice incurs extra charges” when I asked why.
Now we all know how the cash economy works and I’m not trying to be holier-than-thou or moralise; but I’m fed up with the “if you pay me now I’ll send you an invoice” spiel (duh.... ) as there’s obviously no comeback if there’s a problem but no paper trail. In fact, this person’s work was OK and I might want to use them again, but I feel a bit ripped-off all the same. Has anyone else come across this and is it just a fact of life these days?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Burgoyne Bec on
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I think you're getting sidetracked by the whole VAT issue. He's charging you more than he quoted; under contract you might expect some variance if the nature of the job has changed, but I would simply say to him that you might not have gone ahead at the price plus 20% but in recognition of the administration required to produce an invoice you're happy to meet him half way.
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Yes, VAT was my first thought when I saw the extra 20%, but the trader says they're not registered and quoted no number; it's the "extra costs" of an invoice, apparently.
We can all guess what's really going on, but in a way it's not very different from BT's notorious "payment fee" from a supposedly separate (but actually subsidiary) company, levied on anyone paying their bill by any means other than direct debit - and that was ruled legal! "Admin" costs are what anyone says they are...
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I often quote for work by email, ie recorded, and always try to inform clients if there may an additional charge. There's no way I would add 20% to the final bill. No obligation to pay it imho.
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Philip - Yep, I'm self-employed, too, though cash v invoice isn't an issue given the work I do and my (mostly publicly-funded) clients. I agree best practice is to put things on paper and negotiate on any extra costs, but in this case it was a phone call and - short of recording conversations - of course it's impossible to prove who said what, especially given the factors Hugh alluded to earlier in the thread.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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I could produce an invoice for a pound. Add something for envelope and postage and round it up to £2.00
Anything more he's ripping you off.
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Permalink Reply by Maddy on
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I paid a plumber in cash this morning, but it wasn't for a discount as he said he'd take a cheque - just convenience to us both. Didn't get an invoice on the other hand, though I'm sure I could if I asked him.
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Also I sometimes get paid in cash by clients and I declare all of it. Paying in cash doesn't always mean 'off the books' but a 'discount for cash' probably does.
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Maddy: Generally I don't pay in cash, mainly because it's difficult if there's a subsequent problem, and of course it tacitly endorses potential tax dodging. This was someone I hadn't used before; I wasn't offered - and didn't ask for - a discount and was simply given a price and the option of paying cash or by invoice, but it was all on the phone, so I've no comeback. If the job hadn't been quite urgent, I'd have got an e-mail address from them to confirm it, but I needed the work to be done and obviously was naive not to consider the sub-text. Interesting "explanation" from the trader, though!
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Perhaps there is such a big cash economy because our government / the HMRC is so rubbish at collecting taxes from the "big boys". Lead by example and all that, but when it seems there is one rule for some and another for others then perhaps some people give up playing by the book. Just a thought.
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Is it Osbawn or Ozbawn, or is this some kind of tax dodge? And who is Margret Thatcher?
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