Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
The Name Harringay is a Vehicle for Joined Up Planning.
Sorry this is a bit long, it's about traffic.
Why haven’t I got the Hump with all this Chicanery
The members of the Community of Harringay – The Gardens, the Ladder and the surrounding neighbourhood – wish to bring to the attention of Haringey Councillors and David Lammy MP our concern regarding the diminution of our quality of life – and physical damage to our property – due to the current nature of traffic flow in our area.
We recognise the outcomes of previous efforts made by Council members and officers working with TfL and local traders to resolve issues around the Red Route on Green Lanes and we take this and other significant or innovative traffic management measures in our area, as an indicator that, when the Community express sufficiently vociferously, their will for change, the Council can and will listen and act.
Specifically we believe that the number and size of vehicles using many Ladder roads are too great, that Wightman Road suffers from unacceptably high traffic vibration, volume and variability in traffic speeds and that there is a clear absence of balanced policy on traffic for the Harringay area. Further to this, it is critical to recognise that the problems described arise, in part, as a result of the fragmentation of the area into St Ann’s, The Gardens, Green Lanes, The Ladder and Wightman Road.
We wish to see the following:
• A reduction in the maximum weight of vehicles permitted to use the roads in the Harringay Ladder which are currently restricted to 20mph.
• The inclusion of Wightman Road in the 20mph zone and the installation, following discussion with residents and their representative groups, of the traffic calming measures which would unable this to happen.
• Consultation work performed by or for the Council to ascertain the damage and nuisance arising from traffic vibration.
• A commitment by the Council to recognise the integrated nature of the Harringay area and to begin the necessary work on an effective traffic plan for the area.
Commentary:
For those who are not aware of some of the nuances of this discussion the following may be of interest:
The Gardens used to be open to traffic from St Ann’s but this major traffic change was ‘facilitated’ through the good offices of particular councillors with particular interests.
The original conversion of the Harringay Stadium to retail was rejected by Haringey but the Secretary of State over-ruled. However, the recent ‘improvements’ and the resulting traffic chaos were entirely agreed by the Council.
The Ladder 20mph roads used to be 2-way. Salisbury Road and Warham Road suffered appallingly when traffic which would have filtered through the Gardens was forced down Salisbury Road.
Hermitage Road used to be a through road.
In order for there to be a 20mph limit on a road it is necessary to show that the traffic speed is already low i.e. further physical measures are not needed, or there must be traffic calming measures in place. Otherwise the Police would object. The traffic islands which are in place on Wightman Road count as traffic calming measures but they are too few and far apart, hence the need for a discussion and creative thinking. More islands means fewer parking spaces.
The traders on Green Lanes were very active in having the original Red Route changed to allow parking as it is now along Grand Parade. Their argument being that the rush hour occurs in one direction and at specific times.
Why haven’t I got the Hump with all this Chicanery
The members of the Community of Harringay – The Gardens, the Ladder and the surrounding neighbourhood – wish to bring to the attention of Haringey Councillors and David Lammy MP our concern regarding the diminution of our quality of life – and physical damage to our property – due to the current nature of traffic flow in our area.
We recognise the outcomes of previous efforts made by Council members and officers working with TfL and local traders to resolve issues around the Red Route on Green Lanes and we take this and other significant or innovative traffic management measures in our area, as an indicator that, when the Community express sufficiently vociferously, their will for change, the Council can and will listen and act.
Specifically we believe that the number and size of vehicles using many Ladder roads are too great, that Wightman Road suffers from unacceptably high traffic vibration, volume and variability in traffic speeds and that there is a clear absence of balanced policy on traffic for the Harringay area. Further to this, it is critical to recognise that the problems described arise, in part, as a result of the fragmentation of the area into St Ann’s, The Gardens, Green Lanes, The Ladder and Wightman Road.
We wish to see the following:
• A reduction in the maximum weight of vehicles permitted to use the roads in the Harringay Ladder which are currently restricted to 20mph.
• The inclusion of Wightman Road in the 20mph zone and the installation, following discussion with residents and their representative groups, of the traffic calming measures which would unable this to happen.
• Consultation work performed by or for the Council to ascertain the damage and nuisance arising from traffic vibration.
• A commitment by the Council to recognise the integrated nature of the Harringay area and to begin the necessary work on an effective traffic plan for the area.
Commentary:
For those who are not aware of some of the nuances of this discussion the following may be of interest:
The Gardens used to be open to traffic from St Ann’s but this major traffic change was ‘facilitated’ through the good offices of particular councillors with particular interests.
The original conversion of the Harringay Stadium to retail was rejected by Haringey but the Secretary of State over-ruled. However, the recent ‘improvements’ and the resulting traffic chaos were entirely agreed by the Council.
The Ladder 20mph roads used to be 2-way. Salisbury Road and Warham Road suffered appallingly when traffic which would have filtered through the Gardens was forced down Salisbury Road.
Hermitage Road used to be a through road.
In order for there to be a 20mph limit on a road it is necessary to show that the traffic speed is already low i.e. further physical measures are not needed, or there must be traffic calming measures in place. Otherwise the Police would object. The traffic islands which are in place on Wightman Road count as traffic calming measures but they are too few and far apart, hence the need for a discussion and creative thinking. More islands means fewer parking spaces.
The traders on Green Lanes were very active in having the original Red Route changed to allow parking as it is now along Grand Parade. Their argument being that the rush hour occurs in one direction and at specific times.
Tags for Forum Posts: ladder traffic solutions, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Danzigger on
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Completely agree with you there, John. We've discussed this before, with particular reference to the way cyclists' are treated by the law. The police routinely ignore traffic violations by motorists, and this in turn leads to further reckless, selfish and dangerous driving. The only way to change this attitude, and improve the conditions on the roads for all users, is enforcement of the laws.
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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There are plans to enable the police to issue on the spot fines for careless driving infringements, such as failing to indicate. Apparently the police want this power and do use it according to studies carried out.
At the moment the police are reluctant to enforce careless driving enfringements because of all the paperwork involved with a court case.
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Permalink Reply by Sapphireblue on
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This whole discussion reminds me of what it says on the BBC blog thingy - (and I quote as they say):
'In the early 20th Century the Municipal Borough of Hornsey tried to enforce use of the Haringey spelling. It was only resistance by local residents that prevented its adoption.'
Resistance is key....and a long tradition (it seems) of this area.... sorry a minor digression, back to traffic islands....
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That's Harringay traffic islands .... unfortunately not of the type with clear blue seas and palms swaying in the breeze.
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Permalink Reply by Karen Alexander on
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Thought you may be interested in the response of Highways at Haringey Council in response to my enquiries about the implementation of a 20mph speed limit on Wightman Road last year:-
"The introduction of 20 mph speed limits has the attraction of being relatively cheap as only signage is needed. However, a study by the Traffic Research Laboratory (TRL) has shown that average “after” speeds were only 1 mph lower than “before” speeds hence the Department for Transport (DfT) guidance that these should only be used where speeds are already low. DfT consider for locations with an observed 85th percentile speed above 24mph then it is unlikely that 20mph speed limits would be appropriate, unless traffic calming measures are provided. The DfT also consider area wide 20mph speed limits are more appropriate than putting it in on one street alone."
On the question of speed cameras, apparently there haven't been enough accidents for them to be considered!
So, first traffic calming, which is coming then hopefully 20mph - I would say that DfT guidance only adds weight to the argue!
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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There are 20 Ladder roads, all at 20mph that come off of Wightman Rd. There are only two roads (Endymion and where it meets Turnpike Lane) that are 30mph. It is lined with houses and it seems to me a perfect candidate for a 20mph limit.
Now, if the council were able to get money from motorists who speed along it (i.e. 21mph) then I'm sure they would have something in place. I mean, if they look to book (conservatively) 100 people a day at 25mph and another 50 at 30mph they're already missing out on (100*80 + 50*160) 16000 pounds a day! You can do this every day, all week. They'll even have the satisfaction of booking some HoL users too!
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Like your maths, John! It's a win/win situation: either the council gets a load of money, or every car drives more carefully. What's not to like in that scenario?
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Permalink Reply by Barbara Kentish on
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Excellent points, I hope this gets through to councillors and MP. I feel particularly strongly that the retail park is a money spinner for the Council with no corresponding investment in the surrounding area. Just like the concerts in the Park. On the edge of the borough, it's a case of 'anything goes'. Barbara Kentish
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