Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
How European Do You Feel?
At a social event on the Ladder over the weekend, conversation turned to Brexit. I mentioned that one of the reasons I am sad/angry/embarrassed about the direction we've been taken is because I feel European. Two of the people I was chatting with, although ardent Reaminers, responded that they didn't really fell at all European.
So, it got me wondering how people in general feel about their European identities. I'm happily a Londoner, an Englishman, a Brit and a European; all identities can live happily side by side. How do you feel?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Didn't know you were born in Guyana. I was born a Georgetown boy and made the national press before I was one when my nappies were stolen from the washing line!
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Permalink Reply by Sandi on
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You're a Georgetown boy!!! I love that story, is there a copy somewhere??
As for me, I was born in London, not far from here. My parents are Guyanese, from the Essequibo Coast and my grandparents were from India; they left for a better life in Guyana.
Making the National Press with nappy-gate! Only in Guyana! You've surprised, made me smile and left me wanting to know more Hugh. A while back, one of my neighbours was talking about a Guyana-based get together; if it happens, expect an invite!
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OAE's wife is Indian Guyanese too. I do have a copy of the nappy article somewhere. I'll dig it out.
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Brilliant! Look forward to reading it, and maybe see a pic of a baby Hugh in a nappy?? ;-)
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Permalink Reply by Antoinette on
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My Belgian born mother when asked where she is from (she still has a slight twang in her accent and finds the question irritating) she retorts "I'm a Londoner". I put my allegiance to London first, then Arsenal, then Britain. I'm not sure I'd even think too much about my Europeaness if my mother hadn't lumbered me with a foreign name. And I think Maddy makes a very salient point. I speak no foreign languages to speak of (not even French my mother's mother tongue) and therefore do very much feel like the stupid Brit abroad.
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For me the Londoner issue is another layer to the compound sense of alienation. I was born in London, lived my childhood outside London but then returned as a student and have remained. For over 30 years I considered myself a Londoner but that has gradually changed in the past few years (over the period of Mr Johnson's tenure perhaps?) and coalesced to the point where about 18 months ago I made the firm decision to leave London as soon as circumstances allow and I no longer feel this is my city. I knew that by leaving London I would be committing myself to living in a relatively foreign country - I was already well aware of that as a kid and teenager 40+ years ago. But I told myself that in the 21st century it would be possible for me to live somewhere else. Now I know I can't stay in the long term and I don't know that I can go either.
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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The whole point of this thread sort of passes me by. You, we are all Europeans, no ifs or buts, whys or wherefores. I lament the serious lack of knowledge on this subject to be found in the U.K. In your schools you still seem to be banging into the heads of kids, the people you fought against, often centuries ago, rather than talk about those that you now share a community with.
@Matt It may well be a metropolitan construct in the U.K., but that isn't the case in continental Europe, where borders and languages can pass along back yards or be on both sides of them.
and on today's news: The last of the so-called 'leading lights' of the #Brexit fiasco has now left the stage. After a achieving a 'No' result under false pretences, they should all now be stripped of any official position they previously held. In fact, if these were the times of an earlier monarch named Elizabeth, they would all now be safely locked away in the Tower awaiting their haircuts. I hope this British Summer of Stupidity is now at an end. The lack of understanding, plus the arrogance of not learning other languages. Europe, the World isn't British and the U.K. isn't at the centre of it.
..and then this weird thread will be no more..
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It's a simple question, but a couple of you haven't got it. I'm not asking 'How European are you?'. I'm not asking 'How do you feel about the EU'. I'm asking 'How European do you feel?' If the point of the thread passes you by Stephen, you're more than welcome to pass on by!
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OK, put it another way.. I can drive from Warsaw to Málaga without showing a passport or stopping at a customs post. I can go to Spain, Italy, France, Montengero .. so many places without changing my currency. My insurance, driving licence all accepted. Which wasn't the case when I first took my car to Spain in 1972. I don't just feel European.. I am.
The idea spooks lots of Brits.. It's your problem, that you don't feel, have never tried to make yourselves feel more European, not ours.
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Yes dear, we're all European. I get that.
I think it's probably taken for granted that most people on the mainland continent have a stronger sense of feeling European that your average Brit. However, I was surprised to hear what I heard yesterday about some of my neighbours' sense of their Europeanness. So I'm interested to hear more on the topic from those who live about me.
For me it's a very interestig question that links into all sorts of other things. I'm sorry it passes you by. The European Commission side with me on this though, I'm afraid. European identity/identities has been a research topic on the European Commission's agenda since the 1990s and remains so to this day.
Here's what they concluded in their most recent paper on the issue:
Ettore Recchi has presented two contrasting models for the ways that European identity or, more precisely, a sense of identification with Europe and fellow Europeans, could be fostered:
1. A ‘Culturalist’ model in which an orientation to Europe derives fundamentally from core, established European values and their expression in public practices, most notably in governance and the operation of the legal system. This viewpoint emphasizes the essentialism of Europe and posits mechanisms in which identification with Europe takes place ‘top down’ or in which identity is internalised and comes about through the exposure to influential discourses and symbols. If the internalisation has taken place in childhood or adolescence, the primary mechanism is socialisation. If the internalisation is taking place during adulthood, the primary mechanism is persuasion or indoctrination.
2. A ‘Structuralist’ model in which an orientation to Europe derives fundamentally from association with other Europeans. This viewpoint emphasizes the importance of social interaction and posits mechanisms in which identification with Europe takes place ‘from the bottom up’. Identity arises from interacting or associating with others and coming to the realisation that one has much in common with them. It is most persuasive if the person is an adult or at least an adolescent old enough to conceive themselves as placed within a social nexus with other like-situated persons.
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