Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Attn: Heads in Haringey!
'It said schools which decided to alter their uniform - for example a newly-converted academy that decides to change its emblem - should restrict changes to one or two items or to sew-on logos.'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24095539
Brings back the frustrations of Hornsey School for Girls and the complete change of uniform that was forced on parents when the new head joined the school, without the consent or involvement with parents,or indeed most of the children despite the head saying otherwise. When I brought up the issue at a parents evening a child from the school council admitted that even they thought it was a done deal when they were asked for their opinions.
The measuring up was done within school hours away from parents involvement as well and of course the uniform can only be ordered from them and it required a complete new uniform, even for those who had one year left or part of a year. Many parents like myself had just bought a whole new uniform bought in a big size to last but were forced to buy another.
Deeper issues entailed the feelings of the children who had been at the school for a long time and felt that their identity had been taken away without their consent, and they felt they were not allowed to fully express their feelings and have their opinions taken into account.
And more annoying was the fact that when Carol Jones was cornered on this issue before speaking at the parents assembly and asked why there was no leeway for children already at the school to wear out their old uniforms and have a gradual change for their own peace of mind she rather arrogantly stated that this was already her plan which she stated openly to parents, yet sneakily in the summer holidays she reneged on her word and new uniforms had to be bought.
In my view the uniforms were not well thought out either. There was pipping around pockets at the front, pockets that were for show and unusable and many of the uniforms had to be returned because of fraying, the piping and lining was a pale mint green which showed up all the dirt, and it was a specific design rather than the usual blazer which was not appealing to everyone. The uniform was not as well made as the old uniform either. Really annoying!
I do not agree with uniforms in this day and age but understand others views on some of the benefits of them. If uniforms have to be used I believe they should all be able to be bought at the usual outlets like BHs, M&S, Tesco, Sainsburies etc.... and a stick on logo applied to highlight the school attended.
Many parents like me who have tall or larger children are also hit harder as the larger uniforms are more expensive, HSG charges more for larger uniforms, disgraceful!!!! And were we able to buy them in regular stores we would still have had to buy adult sizes which are triple the price at least of the childrens ranges,and trying to find suitable size eight shoes for a daughter who does not want to be a laughing stock is very, very hard!
This certainly is no longer a small subject when costs are soaring. And for those parents who have full or stressful lives it is easy to find you have a last minute rush to organise the uniform. I thankfully was passing the uniform outlet a week or so ago behind the shopping city and the queue was huge!! And it was still huge later on our return trip. I feel sorry for you if you were one of those parents!
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by 2o21fske2ygv0 on
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I never understood school uniforms, then again I was educated by hippies.
Uniforms have little relevance to the workplace (except Emergency Services and retail), and it's more washing to do which has environmental consequences.
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The real benefit was that I was taught as opposed to being coached to pass exams.
I also learnt some awesome things, such as how to use a lathe, milling machine and weld in addition to the regular lessons.
What school now has a metal workshop, or would even contemplate allowing students to use MIG, TIG and Gas welding equipment? And we wonder where engineering and trades went!
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Permalink Reply by gilly on
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Thankfully some of this has changed though I agree not enough... when I was at school I was forced to do domestic science in a mini flat in the school.... keeping it clean and washing up etc... alongside the usual cookery and needlework, whilst boys escaped all this and did woodwork. Girls did not have the choice! And I would have excelled in it and was so frustrated not being able to take part. I went on to do a part time course in furniture craft many many years later and loved it... such a shame! I was a creative that was fully stunted in school life and was put down all the time for having my head in the clouds... I was just bored and unfulfilled!
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I couldn't agree with you more. School uniform makes a mockery of free education. I regularly hear three stock arguments for it:
1. "It's a great leveller". This tends to be said by people with few financial worries, who think less well off people should have to spend as much as they do. It's certainly not a great leveller if you have to get into debt to borrow the £200+ it typically costs to buy a new secondary uniform, as the recent 'The Big Stitch Up' report by Family Action shows: http://www.family-action.org.uk/uploads/documents/The%20Big%20Slita....
2. "It helps with discipline". You might agree with this if you think uniforms are the only means to control a population. The only countries that tend to go in for school uniform are military-obsessed Britain and its former colonies, and totalitarian states (such as China) with a tradition of telling the population what to wear. But more enlightened places don't see school uniform as a prerequisite for good behaviour. Germany and Italy are very sensitive about it because of their fascist past. And where is the evidence that school discipline is much worse in Scandinavia, France, Spain or the US?
3. "It gives a sense of identity". As Gilly's comment shows, this often has more to do with school 'branding' than with creating a sense of belonging. And most young people already have a strong sense of identity and want to express it.
Don't get me wrong - I've no problem with dress codes: it's important that young people dress respectfully in clothes that don't turn them into free advertising hoardings for fashion labels or football clubs. In particular, it's important that they're comfortable enough to study and run about in breaks. But that's why I simply can't understand why most secondary uniform consists of £70+ Kickers instead of trainers, teflon-coated trousers (always a good choice for sweaty adolescents), polyester shirts (same), £50 blazers and restrictive neck-ties that must be worn even in the height of summer. Even The Brownies ditched neck-ties about 20 years ago for Pete's sake!
I wish schools would spend less time enforcing petty rules (such as uniform) that make no difference to educational attainment and more time on things that do, such as improving the quality of their teaching. To paraphrase Dr King, I hope that one day I'll live in a nation where children won't be judged by the colour of their jumper, but by the content of their character.
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Especially if the jumper is orange;) Don't get me wrong I love orange, encourages happiness and ahem! Sexuality.... my friend who shared this article is from Finland, my daughter went there on a school swap once and she said it was amazing, showed up our school system, more brain recovering breaks between lessons, Amazing food, she said the soup and decent bread was out of this world (school meals free to all children) and a much better quality in teaching and child relationship... and of course No Uniforms!!!! Just lots of relaxed happy, individual children expressing themselves and playing freely. No worries about having to go home after school to get changed or having to lug heavy bags around... straight of to play and enjoy life as they should.
I totally agree with your points made. Anne my Finish friend made me laugh, back to sexuality, she said that school uniforms could even be partly to blame for the increase of young teenage pregnancy... ( I guess she was reffering to the stupefying effects of having their self expression and creative drives repressed and frustrations built up because of this. I guess also because if you do look unattractive in a uniform and feel unacknowledged by the opposite sex you may be pressured into other measures to gain attention. Yes her point did make me laugh, I had to add they could also be a deterrent, nothing like the enforcement of an unflattering uniform on a teenage girl with a colour that does not match their complexion (poor orange shirters!) Maybe that's at the root of it, control of children's sexuality which is of course a main creative drive, I think many Asian families and catholic ones welcome it!;), However on a serious note this is soul destroying for young teenage girls who are so vulnerable and needy to feel and look good and who cannot dress to flatter their figures , (I don't mean in a sexual way, just to feel good about themselves!) and are faced with looking like a doughnut when some of their peers are flattered by the enforced outfit!. And as I said when they have size 8 feet like my daughter and have to wear the worst shoes that make her look like her feet are boats setting her sail.....certainly not into calm waters but a whole school life of choppy hormonal turmoil embroiled school existence. which can have a deeper effect on the rest of their lives! And not to mention the arguments and stressful family life that can ensue when school uniforms are constantly lost and left to rot on the living room floor when the exhausted child returns from school!
On the note of flattering uniforms it reminds me of seeing many female teachers in my daughters schools, some of them dressings very sexily and attractively in high heels etc.... and the Head teachers, I am sure they take time to dress to suit their figures and complexions, this can certainly be said for the three female Heads of the schools my children have attended to date, they were all fashion conscious. Perhaps they should all set an example to the children they enforce the uniforms on and dress the same!
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Permalink Reply by JulieB on
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Thank you Peggy Savage, this is exactly how I feel about school uniforms - but you explain yourself much better than I can.
Luckily my children are at a primary school where uniforms aren't enforced, but there is an official uniform for those who want it.
My son is in Year 5 and I am dreading secondary school uniform. After doing a little bit of googling I've found this one school http://www.theguardian.com/education/2011/jan/18/school-uniform-res... which doesn't enforce uniforms so we might have to move to Derbyshire - if the information is still up to date.
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Having been previously ambivalent about school uniform, I am now for them (it is particularly handy when you are on a trip to the Science Museum with Yr 4 children from several other schools, and when travelling by public transport!)
Secondary age children will always 'tweak' their uniform so I think it's a good idea to have base line rules, plus I don't have to deal with daily' discussions' about what's cool or who's wearing what.
It's a bit like why we have speed restrictions on roads for adults
However, I am against school logo-ed items for PE kits. That's where it gets expensive and is unnecessary imo.
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I don't think you necessarily need a uniform to distinguish kids on school trips, all you need are those jackets that are worn over clothes like the netball vests, can be in high vis even better for the younger ones, or just a harness strap.
And regarding not having to deal with daily discussions about what others are wearing that happens anyhow as they still want whats fashionable to wear after school, weekends and holidays. So why not just wear these clothes for school.... children especially the younger ones outgrow their clothes before they're worn out most of the time anyhow, at least that's my experience, so it makes sense to get the most wear out of them, saving money and much more practical, even space saving for those of us less fortunate to have lots of space for storage, these days its considered perfectly ok to have two teenagers living in a box room! I would go further to say it helps the environment because you do not need two sets of clothes.
I would also disagree on your point that its the PE kit that makes it expensive, for my children it was far to expensive before you even started to add the PE kit! They both needed adult clothes and adult shoes from an early age. Rather this money was spent on allowing them some fashionable clothes that they could feel comfortable in and allow them space for self expression.
Heaven help that they tweak their uniforms.... its natural for teenagers, so rather than set rules and regulations why not respect their need to explore their own individuality. The only reigning in that would need to be applied is one of not dressing provocatively or showing to much flesh, that's were the speed restrictions for adults simile would apply.
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I blame the clothing industry rather than the schools. As soon as my children went beyond a size 2 in shoes, the cost increased by at least £15 per pair. And girls school shoes are terrible compared to boys' - thin soles, impractical styles - and that's from a well known 'reputable' company
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I understand how difficult it is to keep an eye on young people during trips, but the same can be said for leading large groups of adults and I haven't heard anyone arguing that coachloads of American tourists should be made to wear uniforms around the Science Museum.
Speed restrictions are surely to save lives rather than to set ground rules, although I'm not averse to dress codes. As for discussions about what's cool, I think it's more important than ever before that we discuss with young people how 'coolness' is contained in your character - not your clothes, car, home, accent, profession or any other superficiality by which we tend to judge people these days.
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Thanks for sharing the link, Julie. The article rightly points out that:
'In Europe, uniform is relatively rare. Yet here in the UK, it goes largely unremarked that the increasing popularity of blazer and tie uniforms over the last 30 years has coincided with increasing social inequality.'
Inequality is now so serious in this country that to argue that it can be 'levelled' by making young people wear a expensive uniform is astoundingly superficial, ignorant and patronising. I'm surprised that there isn't more of a movement against school uniform in the UK. But we must live in hope that the Government might eventually see sense - as they have yesterday in announcing free school meals for all infants: which does far more for social equality, in my view. I hope this happens before your son gets to Year 7.
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