Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
A proposal for a real public space at the heart of Harringay
Piazza design for Junction of Green Lanes and St Ann's, please comment on a resident proposal to make it a reality! Could this be considered to be adopted by the Green Lanes Strategy Group?
The square / piazza would work as a pedestrian friendly gateway between the two wards of Harringay and St Ann's. Bus routes would continue as normal and traffic direction would be reversed on Harringay Rd, also making catching a bus safer, crossing St Ann's for the 341.
For the Winter Fair everyone will remember how exciting it was to see the band and pyrotechnics open the Festival, Doctor bike has used the corner of the Salisbury for promoting cycling, it is a a landmark that many people recognise locally or otherwise.
PDF of proposal: green%20lanes%20piazza.pdf
For nursery and school children and parents it would make pedestrian access to green Lanes/nearby children's centre and school travel safer, it would improve the shop frontage for immediate St Ann's shops and reconnect St Ann's with Harringay, where local events can be promoted.
Comments welcome.
Link to Green Lanes Strategy News (January 17, 2012:) - http://www.harringayonline.com/forum/topics/it-s-by-bye-bridge-bann...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by matthew cuthbert on
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Thanks Geoff that's very encouraging news. It's clear that a traffic movement diagram is necessary for people to understand the current vehicle flow, and in turn provide some possible alternatives for further discussion, I will record street widths of Harringay, Colina and St Anns Rd's.
This study together with pictures will highlight the impact of current traffic and inform some ideas of of how each road could cope with potential change in traffic direction.
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Permalink Reply by Katy Mendes on
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I'm up for pedestrianising Green Lanes full stop
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Permalink Reply by Rachel Fisher on
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This looks like a really interesting proposal. I'd be interested to know what the feeling was from the traders meeting last night. It brings up a few issues:
1 the wider traffic calming measures in the area and access to and from Green Lanes
2 the continued vacancy of the Colliseum ground floor - this is a real issue if you're wanting to create an active space on that corner. similarly it seems that the mini-parade of shops on St Ann's is struggling to keep the shops full. There was a planning application a few years ago for flats and commercial/ retail on the site of the garage, I wonder what happened to that proposal...
3 finally, what kind of temporary interventions could be done to 'try it out' before we invest in more permanent solutions.
Overall I think that having a 'civic space' would be fantastic. Matthew, what was the genesis of this proposal? I'd be really keen to get involved in discussions about redesigning the high street.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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I was saying to Councillor Canver only last night that the Green Lanes Strategy Group needs to open up to wider involvement of residents, both those who are interested because they live here and those who have a particular set of skills to offer. I know of several locals, for example, who have such expertise relevant to this very issue - and that's probably just the tip of the iceberg.
I'd say if anyone wants to get involved, Cllr Canver can only welcome your engagement. I can't imagine for a moment that she'd want to discourage it. Typically, the issue in most areas is insufficient numbers of people wanting to get involved (or the lack of a proper mechanism for them to do so). So, do just email the councillor (nilgun.canver@haringey.gov.uk) and let her know. If anyone does so, please come back and let us know what response you get.
My understanding from a conversation with Matt and his wife Helen is that this idea was driven by the lack of any public space in the centre of Harringay. A current proposal is to have a Christmas tree in the Arena Shopping Park Car Park. That's a positive development, but it's in a space dedicated to cars and it's not public space, and just serves to highlight the need for a public space.
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I think the try before you buy is a great idea. We can see similar ideas in action with the surface treatment of Trafalgar square and side streets between St Martins in the Fields and immediate blocks on Charing Cross Rd.
We could visit or record like examples on camera in more detail.
The idea was born from a discussion locally, I've struggled with this intersection with my children, and I have witnessed a near fatality recently. The mini parade is in need of some council TLC! I think this junction should be key to connecting St Ann's Ward with Harringay, and if money is available for Green lanes, it would be great to see this junction receive attention. Similarly the junction of Frobisher Rd and Green Lanes, is a child fatality waiting to happen. I would call on all councillors to observe this junction from 8.45 to 9, to understand the dangers for families trying to get their children across this pedestrian hostile crossing to school
safely.
The vacancy of the Colliseum seems partly due to the high rents asked for that unit, maybe it should be divided into two units? Again the Garage remained, I think there was an auction for the site, (the developer
may not have been able to get the densities to return a yield for the site,) you could enter the site address into the haringey.gov.uk site to see if a planning application was made.
On the 4th of Oct there is a meeting with the Haringey Police Commander at Cafe Lemon, with local residents and Traders, that might be an opportunity to get to meet with the Traders, I would be happy to introduce you.
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Permalink Reply by Liza on
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Matt, I agree this junction is dangerous as it stands. its counterintuitive to cross and almost requires eyes at the back of your head. It is likely that there will be an accident at some point, and I have no doubt the layout could be vastly improved upon - even if we don't get all the way, i do think there is a good argument to increase safety here for pedestrians.
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I feel that it is always resolvable through the design analysis, from case studies, historic context, urban morphology, building density, traffic flow diagrams, dialogue and consultation, instinct and some discussion you can form a view for a design framework, highlighting local aims and objectives, then with good standards with contractors you can provide a desirable result. The over lapping of evidence is always the same process, but if there is no desire for this, there's no can do from the council and its usually people who drive/ attract councils and other bodies attention. A design workshop could reveal a lot, done by residents with professionals is such a revealing process, and you cant argue with it, get Westminster University and Imperial college on the case. Community action can do a lot, look at the action that got the Endemion Rd Crossing on Green Lanes after 3 years of campaigning, Fairlands Park, Finsbury Park, Duckets Common, Chestnuts Park, we just need attention to our streets.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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Whatever the design analysis, morphology, dialogue and consultation. you cant get over the fact that all that is proposed is a widening of the pavements. The area is too small to be a public space.
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Hi Matt
What time is the meeting on the 4th? If it's in the evening I could potentially make it.
Really keen to help with this. Hugh I'll drop Nilgun a line. Thanks for the suggestion.
Rachel
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Meeting with police commander - though I'm not sure that's the ideal opportunity for a discussion about this scheme. I think minds will be elsewhere.
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Thanks Rob, you guys have have done a great job attracting interest for Harringay, it's great to hear that there has been a Northern Gateway identified, which could also be an Eastern Gateway, to define the immediate shopping precinct, and hopefully include an action plan for Frobisher Rd to be included in further rounds of funding. The High Streets success is important to all of us as residents and customers and retailers.
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