Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Primary School Places/N Harringay School
I read with some dismay the recent news stories regarding the shortfall of primary school places in London, and the numbers of pupils who do not get their first preference for places. My son will start school in September 2012, and I would love to hear first hand from parents who have applied this year. Questions that I have running around my head include:
Has anyone not got a place at all?
How many parents got their first choice of schools?
What criteria did parents use to make their selection eg, location/Ofsted reports etc.
Of the three primary schools within a mile of me, North Harringay seems to rate highest on their Ofsted report, but is the furthest away. South Harringay is closest, but scores much lower. I don't think Ofsted reports alone can tell the whole story - so what would parents recommend?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Antoinette on
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That is the six million dollar question we all want to know the answer to. What WILL happen if there simply aren't enough places to go around. On the Politics Show (BBC1) last Sunday they featured Lambeth who have built temporary classrooms in the playgrounds of existing schools to cater for the additional places they required last year. The stats for London are that there are expected to be 8,000 more pupils than places next year (ie. the year Germana and I are going to need a space) rising to 14,000 by 2014. That's a lot!
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Permalink Reply by sparkle on
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You haven't hit a nerve, I just don't agree. You are attacking choice because it supports your own agenda with regard to what you believe. If you make a local choice, I applaud it - and I know it will benefit people in our community because you are (as far as I'm aware) an parent actively involved in your school. No one is going to stand by and give us special awards for it, do it because you want to and with no grievance against those who can't/don't. Life is way to short, and anyway- I thought you wanted difference , after all that is what the area is about?
Actually I don't know who you are referring to. I know several attending faith schools, both west and east of the ladder. I also know a family attending a school with a specialist provision, and people taking up alternative education - home schooling for ex. Are you saying no choices at all? And that these parents won’t contribute to the community. really?
In addition I'm sure there are many parents who have moved after their children began school in other areas and continue to travel out of the area because they do not wish to uproot their children. I really think you should not judge what you cannot know. How can you possibly tell the reasons why some children are in schools elsewhere?
This issue cuts both ways. There also are a surprising number of children travelling IN to our local schools. I did the Sth H junior travel plan, and I can tell you that some children come from as far away as Northumberland park and Hackney. One of my daughter's best friends lives just by Cally Road tube station. High pupil mobility is a fact of life in London and attacking it amongst some types of parent because you think they are open targets (white, middle class, whatever) is unsupportable. If you are going down that road then you will have to agree that part of the deal is kicking out kids who have started at Sth or Nth H when their accommodation changes. That is unfair and damages those most at risk. Like most aspects of a personal liberty/choice, you have to take the good with the bad. I would prefer to be able to offer continuity of education to those whose circumstances force frequent moves, because the alternative is far more *not fair* than a few *allegedly advantaged* children going to school out of zone.
Presumably this group who ‘only want to use the community as a base’ pay council tax just like us so whether they use the services is rather immaterial. (possibly better for us if they don’t actually) Parents are making the best choices they can. Give yourself pause and think if it’s not personal for you and you just aren't trying to hit a soft target to score a point perhaps because of other issues to do with school.
I don't want to be brutal, but hey I do seem to be shooting from the hip today! You are looking in the wrong place for reasons why Nth H might be *not an accurate snapshot*. The *snapshot* of Nth H (by which I take it you mean intake) is not what affects results the most- it is the actual standard of education on offer. Its intake is very similar to that at Sth but ultimately, the value added scores at Nth H are the second lowest in the entire Haringey borough at the last time they were recorded(2009) and were similar for several years. I am aware that the word on the street is that a new head has done wonders, and there are a new cohort of motivated parents like yourself and things are on the up- I’m stating that historically the school has done less well with it's mixed intake than Sth H for example.(which is mid table on VA).
If you want to make a meaningful difference - in preference to blaming the lack of certain children’s attendance- I would suggest you start by asking the school what the factors are which influenced this and *make sure they are a focus of the ongoing improvements*. Because it is unlikely to be your child who is slipping through the cracks, and not addressing the overall standards is simply paying lip service to community cohesion. The divisions start in school.
Apparently the key to happiness is feeling you can make a difference - which might be why people like to connect on websites like HOL. You are not going to make a difference by railing against choice or other people’s values.
Chip away at what you can do, and focus on the good you can do right now.
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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on
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What agenda do I have Rachael, I would like to be informed, what benefit is it to me? My agenda is the betterment of my community. Unlike yourself I believe in level play fields (well if Thatcher hadn't sold them all off), especially in education and I believe a local school should be made up of local kids where local parents help out, what a strange notion eh?
The reason why NHP isn't an accurate snapshot of the north part of the Ladder is people don't go to their local school and all of a sudden forget their ethics, discover faith* and make shallow excuses for their 'choices'. I would estimate around 30-40% of kids in NHP catchment choose to go to schools further afield when there is a perfectly good ones within our community.
I focus on the community of which myself and my family live, play, socialise and go to school. I love the word 'choice' when used in this context used by well off people because they can afford that choice or don't want to mix with common folk. A classic Tory key word.
I don't really have an issue with people who move and want their kids to stay in a school, that's fine. I don't really have issues with faith schools per say but I do have a problem with people suddenly discovering it around six months before the school applications closes.
It seems we have a very different outlook on this subject, I encourage and promote the schools in Harringay (four I think?) as I believe the community schools and kids benefit. You prefer 'choice', which means professional and privileged parents and their skills are taken to another community – Bingo!
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Permalink Reply by Germana on
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As a parent I can see merits in what both of you are saying although I tend to agree perhaps more with Birdy in general on the dangers of the "choice" agenda. In any case I don't think you will solve this dispute on HoL....
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@ birdy..
You have made the argument that Nth is negatively affected by the pupils who do not attend. Perhaps, but there is precisely *no* evidence for this apart from your rather wide reaching statements.
By definition the *snapshot* currently at Nth H is of all local children anyway(or those who were local and have moved) what's the problem? They are your school community. (there are many types of community, we don't all have to morph together)
You revealed all in your last statement. You're missing the children of the professional and privileged parents. For me that is too dangerously close to the same as saying you're not satisfied with the less professional and less privileged parents you have - otherwise why the need to hanker for others?
As for outlook?
Despite it not being what I want or would ever want for my own children , I am not prepared to tell people they cannot have a faith based education if that is what they truly wish for. Even then, if you're saying choice in one area (faith) is ok , you cannot then lock it down in another (private).
I encourage only a realistic look at what is going on and being honest about what is needed for local schools to continue to improve. We do not live in that ideal world just yet.
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It amazes me you know so much about NHP and the people who attend over someone whose children attend there and who is involved as an active parent. I know people that neglect local schools as they live around us. This is not here-say Rachael, please believe me.
“we don't all have to morph together”, you are right that's why I chose to be inclusive and not creating particians within the community. I would rather have a unified community rather than one of division which is choice apparently. I'll repeat, I want the schools to represent the community in which they live whether they be professional, rich, poor, religious or otherwise, that's the point you are failing to grasp.
I have had phone calls this morning saying well done for saying what I have. Think of that what you will but as long as we have parents not willing to support our local schools (and community), division (sorry choice) and educational snobbery will be rife.
Signing off.
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I have report that I made a slight mistake in my earlier post - I had got my km and miles mixed up! Just to reassure other Gardens residents, in reality we would be comfortably within the catchment area for North Harringay this year, although strikingly by just a few meters we would have not been offered a place at South Harringay nor Chestnuts which are much closer by far.
So in order to make realistic choices for the 2012 application - and avoid the risk of not getting into any of the 6 and being asked to travel really far - I have checked which other schools I could put in the application apart from the 3 mentioned above.
One that is reasonably close to us is West Green primary. The Ofsted is 3 years old and definitely does not look promising. But as this is clearly not the only part of the story as many keep saying, is there anyone that has more recent information on how this school is doing? Is it improving like others in the area or not yet? Any information greatly welcomed. I will probably go see it anyway but any first hand or even hearsay experiences would help with some background.
Someone mentioned Downhills as worth considering - thanks - it's a bit far although I guess we could still go visit...
Otherwise as predicted the RC ones within a short distance from here have excellent Ofsted reports. St John Vianney in N15 and and St Mary's in Hermitage road....for the moment I don't think I'll go for this option but any info greatefully received as well.
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Permalink Reply by JulieB on
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When I was looking for my son 3 yrs ago I wasn't keen on West Green. It's small, only one class per year and after seeing Chestnuts I decided not to put it on my list. I also got the impression (maybe from the ofsted or someone telling me) that they have a high turnover of children, when people move on from temporary accommodation. But this was 3 yrs ago so it could have changed and be worth a visit.
People have told me that St John Vianney is one of the best in the area, but I didn't consider it because I didn't want my children to go to a faith school - and unless you're catholic you won't get in.
I met the Head at Downhills and I was impressed by him, and I hear that the school has improved a lot. I see on the list I got with my offer letter that it's oversubscribed this year, but the catchment was 0.715.
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small can have advantages too although I agree high turnover - if true - may be a problem...I'll have a look anyway.
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Germana - that is good news that you miscalculated. At the moment NH is not too oversubscribed, but I do fear that the situation in 2012 may be even worse than it is this year. It is really crazy. I don't know a single person who got their first choice and quite a few who didn't get anything on their list. It's definitely worth putting a school like Downhills or West Green on your list so that you don't end up with something random and a long way off.
Another one to consider (though might be too far) is Seven Sisters. My son goes to the nursery there and we are mostly happy with it. He's been offered a place there for reception which I expect I will come to accept in time, but for now we are still gutted not to have been offered Chestnuts. There isn't a lot of movement, from what the headteacher told me, so I don't think we stand much chance of getting through on the waiting list. SS has an ok ofsted and the school really is alright. We actually rated it higher than Downhills.
As for Tiverton, it is not as bad as you might think. The headteacher at Downhills told me that the new head at Tiverton is an inspiration and that he aims to be like her. He spoke of her in glowing terms. As was the case with Chestnuts, a really good headteacher can turn a school around. What is insane though is that my neighbour got given a place in Noel Park even though Tiverton is really nearby and our closest non-Christian school. I don't understand how they could have assigned the places to people in Crouch End and not to her. Anyway, I will reassure her that if she goes on the waiting list she will very likely get a place there since it sounds like lots of people won't be taking up their offers.
Louise - rather than trying to set up a network yourself, you ought to get in touch with other Home Educators (who do it by choice). They already have a network and meet up regularly in order for their children to socialise and to share resources. Your other option, as mentioned, is to keep your child in nursery for another term or two. They are legally obliged to give you the place (the 15 hours funding) until the child turns 5 at which point you are obliged to send them to school (or homeschool).
OAE - you have no idea how insulting you are, do you? We each of us make our decisions to have children, and when, with our partners and based on our own personal circumstances. We are not succumbing to some social pressure to have babies because other people are. In fact, not that it's any of your business, but we had some problems conceiving our first child. If we had not then he would have been born a year earlier and he would have got a place at Chestnuts no problem. How about thinking before you type?
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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I really think you do OAE's tongue-in-cheek wit a disservice. Not everything on here should be taken so literally and I think you're being just a little over sensitive.
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