Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Memories of childhood in wartime Harringay
Welcome to a new member of HOL, Pat Stuart, who has shared these evocative memories of a childhood in wartime Harringay
At 80 years, so pleased to discover this site.
I was born in January 1936, our family lived in a flat above Disney stores in Green lanes.
Early recollections are outbreak of war causing our front windows to be criss crossed with sticky brown paper to protect from blast. This made my view of the trolley bus and other passing traffic difficult to watch as they passed below.
Finsbury Park had huge grey barrage ballons that looked to me like huge floating elephants in the sky helping to keep enemy bombers away. There was also a big gun that I was told was named Big Bertha. During raids my brother and I sat on our flats staircase and felt safe when we heard the big gun.
Later on our family moved to St Ann's road into a ground floor flat of a block called Salisbury Mansions and I started school in Woodlands Park School Infants, later the Junior School whose entrance was at the rear of the buildings. On the way to school was a little bakery on the corner I think of Etherley Road where I could, once a week, buy a sticky bun for a farthing, my weekly treat.
Many children were unfortunate to catch ringworm and we were sent to the clinic in Chestnut Park where treatment was to be announced with gentian violet, sent back to school with violet markers to let all know our plight. I had ringworm on the head and when evacuated with the school in 1941 was completely bald.
For a time, many children were brought home for various reasons and I was one of a number who as schools all closed had the freedom to roam . We got up to many tricks and called ourselves the Chestnut Park gang. Hardly any cars meant the roads were our playground until the powers that be gathered us all up and got the school on again.
The Ever Ready factory in St Ann's road was bombed and our flat windows blew in and glass cut through our parents eiderdown and mattress. Luckily mum and I were in the Morrison shelter and had only few cuts to show for our adventure. My dad and brother were on duty that night dad as ARP warden and John as messenger. Dad was also in the Auxiliary Fire Service and was part of team who saved St Paul Cathedral's when it was hit. The blitz decided my parents that it would be safer to go to sleep in the underground shelter in Manor House tube and I have many memories of those nights .
Just a few memories stirred.
No doubt I'll have more to add as I lived in Harringay until I married in 1954. Good to have a spot for my recall of those times.
Tags for Forum Posts: world war two
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Elinor Dashwood on
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Thanks for posting- more stories please!
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Hello Elinor, I'm so surprised that people find my rambling memories interesting. It is amazing this internet with so many ways connections can be made. I'm blessed with 6 adult grandchildren and 6 great grandchildren who have helped grandma to get to grips with this magic.
Evacuation from London sent me off twice from London blitz first to Wales at 4yrs and then again to Cheshire with woodlands park school at about 7yrs. I was nearly 10 at end of war.
Think this experience had two effects I still hold which is my schooling interuptions caused gap in knowledge of maths and my " things will get better tomorrow " optimism.
One anecdote you may be interested to hear.
My mother brought me home from evacuation in Cheshire and as the schools were all closed and used for other purposes the brought home children had unbelievable freedom and I became a streetwise tomboy.
One day I climbed into an outside coal bunker to retrieve a ball that had been kicked into it. I became even dirtier and scruffier than usual. My dad was told a v2 rocket had dropped in harringay alarmed he rushed home from work. When he saw me as he got off bus by St Anne's road covered in coaldust and grazed knees he thought we had been bombed out. His rushing to me and crying "Is mum alright" as he hugged me was good at first but then took me to Conway road baths for a bath.
He was very cross that I was so sooty.
The weekly trip to London County council baths were only way we had a bath as no hot water in our flat . Water ration was kept strictly. and you took your own soap. You did get a towel with LCC stamped on in blue letters.
The baths were in cubicles with latches to shut the doors. Hooks to hang your clothes and a wooden slatted bathmat was all that was there. When ready you called the attendant to turn on the water from a main control. Water for a bath was 3 inches children and 5 inches for adults.
No showers and I do wonder just how did elderly manage at that time .
At 80 I certainly cannot get in or out safely from a bath and enjoy and appreciate my walk in shower and constant hot water . No electricity in the flat just gas mantles electric put in after the war ended. Therefore no central heating.
Coal fires in winter which only warmed the kitchen living room . My bedroom was so Cold in winter weather I used to scrape ice from inside the windows.
Now I have spray to clear ice from my car windscreen and I still grumble. Life now is luxury. Enjoy every moment Regards Pat
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Hi Pat Staurt, till 1954. I was born in Frome Street Islington, then my Dad moved us to, 5c Grand Parade Harringay, above the Shops. I was 4 years old at the time.The name of the Store was " Tonges " a Grocery shop. ( just after the War it became " TESCO " ) You seem to have similar memories of life in that area, Caves the Wonderful Bakery, that also made Fantastic Donuts, as well as those scrumptious sticky Buns. I also remember Salisbury Mansions, I was very sweet on a girl, who lived in a Flat in the bottom right hand. Her name was Pat Blight, if I remember rightly, she was a real nice person, and treated me as her " good friend " which I thought at the time was great. Did you ever go scrubping in the Hospital Grounds in St Ann's road, which was opposite the Woodlands Park ??? I used to love that Park and spent most of my younger years there. The Eveready, from our Flat in Harringay I saw the Buzz Bomb ( Doodle Bugs ) hit the Building, it was like a giant fireworks display. We never went to any Shelters, my Mother, bless her soul," said if we are going to die, it would be as a Family " I spent many a night watching the Buzz Bombs flying in the night sky, it was like a " Boys Own " time. Yes I also went to Woodlands Park Infants Schoo, then on to the Primary School at the back. Finishing up at South Grove School. The Big Guns in Finsbury Park at Manor House, with the Barrage Baloons,( Woodlands Park also had Baloons ) those Guns were going full tilt, on most nights, if my memory serves me right. You would also remember the Harringay Dog Track, that doubled for the Dirt Track Speedway, I used to bunk in the on the night with a few mates. Then there was the Harringay Arena, with all the shows and the Roller Skating Speedway American Style ( Johnny Gazar was one of there Star Skaters ) Sorry for going on but I've only scratched the surface of my time, in " Lovely Old Harringay " in my youth. My time in Harringay was a fun and Safe place to be, I enjoyed every minute I lived there. Sorry to say " I would hate to live there now, " each time I come back, for a trip, 4 times so far, each time it looks worst. We moved out of Harringay in November 1964, and settled in Brisbane Australia, it was the Best Move in our Life. I have everything one could wish for,but I will say this " I always enjoy my trips back home to London, as the saying goes " You can take the Boy out of Harringay but not the Harringay out of the Boy " Cheers everyone, I hope there are still someone who remembers me. Eddie Constable is my name, Thanks.
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Hello Eddie I was so surprised to read your comments and have to own up I was Pat Blight and amazed you even recall our family flat in Salisbury Mansions being ground floor flat. You must have been part of the Chestnut Park kids who spent all day free to roam. The park superintendent we called "Parkie" and we were constantly causing him trouble. Three on a swing and walking up the slide instead of sliding down. These antics really upset the poor chap. Dad had an allotment in the park and my job was to collect whatever mum required in the way of vegetable I had number written with indelible Pensil on my arm to remember our plot number. Took some bravado to convince "Parkie" it wasn't me he had chased off the roundabout earlier in the day. Yes I did go apple scrumping but had forgotten where interested to know it was St Anne's hospital grounds which makes sense as opposite woodlands park school and the park. Yes I went to the speedway track to cheer on the Harringly racers and Vic Duggan and his team " 2 4 6 8 waiting at the starting gate who the Harringay racers , come on chaps and turn on the taps take the right line right along the white line , what do we want to see him and her and me Vic Vic and victory" such a great place to go the Harringay arena home to so much entertainments. The circus , ice hockey, Billy Graham the American evangelist held a huge Christian crusade there too. I went with a friend from work and it was quite a show. I think horse of the year was held there too. Do you remember the coliseum picture palace we called the colly opposite the Salisbury pub my friend and I used to stand outside when it was adult only films and say "take me in mister" shudder to think now how foolish we were.
So much you recall makes me think we were very good friends Eddie . Best of wishes Pat Stuart nee Blight.
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Hi Pat, why did you call yourself Staurt, if your Maiden names was Blight ?????? If you are Pat Blight from the Salisbury Mansions, in that bottom right hand Flat, back in the 40s and 50s, then you would or should remember a lot of other kids that lived in Salisbury Road and also in St Anne's Road ????? Frank Scarfe was one of those kids, lived at 24 Salisbury Road and he knew you also, from my recollection, you were sweet on him, much more than me, which used to upset me. ha!ha! Then there was Erny Wise who lived above the Glass Shop on the Corner of Salisbury and St Anne's Road. Also there was a few more people who you should remember, who also lived in Salisbury Road, Terry Blackwell, Allan Ladd, Maureen Davis, Billy Davis and the twin Boys ( who's name I can't remember ) who's Father only had one arm.Shirly Sargent, lived above the shops on the Corner of Salisbury Road and Grand Parade, Pamela Mathews also live up there. I thought you were an only child also ????? I heard that you Married a Guy who was something to do with physical Education?? Also I think you would remember me, because I came from a large Family and was always wearing worn out carments, which I put down to you not liking me, because Franky Scarfe was an only Child and had all new clothing, his Mother was a School Head Cook and his Father Drove Buses. ha!ha! There are a load more names I can remember, so if you can recall any names from the old days, please let know ????
Tell me one thing Pat, did you enjoy living in Harringay back in those Days and are you Happy now ???? Keep in touch if you feel the need, because I would like to remember you as you were. Eddie Constable.
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So quick to respond Eddie. My maiden name was Blight I did marry in 1954 that physical training instructor after he was demobbed from serving his national service 2 years.
We were married 25 years but sadly divorced . My second marriage is why my surname became Stuart we were happily together for 32 yrs until he died last July.
Many friends from woodlands park school lost touch as we were all sent to different secondary schools and sadly only a few names you mention I recall.
I went to Downhills central school and left at 15 to work at the British drug houses in city road. My brother John was 9 yrs older than me so that is maybe why you thought I was an only child.
Eddie now you tell me you came from a large family I think I do recall the name Constable and Frank Scarfe not sure I was sweet on anyone we were all just happy kids together after all. Shirley Sargent and Maureen Davis ring bells too. Did you know Doris Aldridge and Rene Keylock or Wendy Brown who lived flat above us and later on marriage moved into one of the other flats in the mansions.
Definitely would not have noticed what you wore for my wardrobe was made up of caste me downs too. Yes my memories of Haringey are all good. Passing of time change people and places so much.
Am I happy now yes life is sweet and I have a wonderful family and extended family of my second husband who supported me during my husbands long illness and now as I face life as a widow. I have interests and friends and good memories to sweeten the bad.
Proud to have 6 grandchildren and 3 step grandchildren and blessed with 6 great grandchildren eldest 16 youngest 6 months.
Take care Pat
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Sounds to me, Pat, like someone used to be rather "sweet on you"! Which is always flattering no matter how many years have passed...
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Thank you Antoinette for your kind words, regarding my feelings, so long ago..I hope You have some Wonderful Memories also. Eddie
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Antoinette I have to say that I'm so amazed to realise how our long term memories are greeted with such interest.
I quess we have to accept our 1940,s childhood accounts are useful verbal history.
It was a difficult time to be a child and a time when danger pushed adults and children to become aware of each others need.
Yes it's very nice to find out that 70 odd years ago I was liked and remembered . then as now young boys did not wear their hearts on their sleeves so I was unaware of these feelings.
Regards Pat
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I think your stories are fascinating. It's only now I regret never having thought to talk to my own grandmother about her recollections. I can share a couple of short tales from another perspective.
My mother was born in 1938 in a small provincial town in Belgium. One of my most prized possessions is a photograph of my her aged 3 or 4 wearing the most beautiful white fur coat and matching bonnet tied at the neck with fur pom poms. She looked like a cross between Shirley Temple and Betty Grable! I jokingly said to her "you didn't have it so tough in the War", to which she responded "hardly; they were my pet rabbits". She went on to explain that she rarely eat meat at all as a child and that rabbits were a staple part of their diet. Competition for wild rabbits was fierce and she was in charge of farming her pet domestic rabbits and when the rabbits went in the pot, the skins were saved, cured and fashioned into this beautiful garment. My grandmother, being the ever resourceful woman she was, not to mention an amazingly skilled seamstress, constructed this coat in a cape style and each winter further pelts were added to bottom so that the coat grew as my mother did. It was the only coat she had for the duration of the war. But by god she looked glam! As long as you didn't look at her feet. My mother went on to relate that from the age of 3 she didn't have even one pair of shoes and my grandmother had to fashion homemade clogs for her. She blames this for the shocking state of her feet all through her life. Fur coat and clogs... what a combo!
Many years after my grandmother died, I was about to throw away some crocheted lace doilies that to me were horribly old-fashioned but my mother shrieked "you can't throw them away; your Granny made them in prison". "In prison???!!!" It transpires that when the nazis marched into their town, my grandmother had jeered them and encouraged others to do the same. The black shirts arrived the next morning and my grandmother was taken away. No trial or hearing, just imprisoned there and then and my mother left without either of her parents for 2 years. So when I hear stories of how the Belgians were weak - willed collaborators, people simply don't know what it was really like to be occupied by the nazis. I wish I had known during her lifetime about the stand my grandmother had taken but the truth is it destroyed my mother's relationship with her. She never forgave her for effectively abandoning her at such a crucial stage of her childhood.
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Wow !!!!!!!! I cannot believe after all these Years, that there was someone I knew from back then, also my memory served me right.
Now you said you were Married in 1954, that would have made you 18 years old, why did you get Married so young, or is that no concern of mine ??? I was into my second year of my National Service at that time, but may 2 years lasted for 3 years, simply because of my unfortunate start in adult life!!! By that I mean," I made the biggest mistake of all." The Girl I was going with at the time, became Pregnant, in 1953 and we had this Beautiful baby Boy, who changed my whole life completely. You see I was doing my Basic Training at that time, in December 1953, and I was doing just great, with the chance of getting a Strip at the end. But once I saw my baby son Gary, that was the end of the Army for me, because I kept going absent without leave. So that cost me extra time on my Service,I just found it too hard to leave him each time. Also I had to serve Military Prison time, which was very unpleasant. In the end the Army sent me to East Africa, to confront the Mau Mau. That was the best thing to happen to me because I learnt to Drive not only Army Transport but Public Transport also ( I still have my Kenya Driving License) and finished up Driving the Commanding Officer of my Battalion. Who turned out to be my Best Friend, who Died about 12 years ago, sadly missed by me and my whole Family.
Sorry but I do not remember those girls you mentioned, simply because I never played down that end of Salisbury Road. You got the Harringay Racers song right, and you would never believe it but I have a friend out here in Brisbane, who's name is Duggan and he is related to the Duggans from Sydney. What a small World is that ???? The Harringay Arena was a great place to be in, you must remember tha Ice Skating, I played Ice Hockey for a short time, for the Harringay Racers.
I would like to know, if you agree, that we exchange e-mail addresses, so that our conversations are more Private and we can send old and new photos of ourselves ?????? Bye the way, where do you live now, I take it, it's in tha UK, you don't have to mention if you don't want too. Will close now, because I could go on for ages ha!ha! Regards Eddie
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Pat and Eddie. Just in case you don't know, you can also chat and exchange information privately on this website. For instance, if you click on Pat's name on one of her posts it takes you to a page called "Pat Stuart's Discussions" . Under the title you'll see a link called "Send message". It will then ask you to add Pat as a connection. Once she has accepted away you go.
But please don't stop putting your memories on this site. They're wonderful to read.
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