Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Why so many Turks/Kurds
I have never had a satisfactory answer as to why there are so many Turks and Kurds in North London. I have no problem with this and welcome the improved restaurant provision (tho Harringay is the best) I know that in the 70s many Turkish and Greek Cypriots settled here after the invasion of Cyprus, but now there are a huge number of settled Turks/Kurds. Surely they can't ALL be refugees?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by james walsh on
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What kind of dumb question is that ? Oh i see, you're being subtly provocative. clever :-)
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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It goes without saying that your question runs the risk of being perceived as racist, either in intent (as you clearly recognise) or through its impact. I'm going to give it the benefit of the doubt at this stage but I will be keeping a close watch on any responses.
It took me two minutes Googling to turn up a slightly out of date but nonetheless very pertinent Oxford University study that has many answers to your questions:
Please take note of the second table and think about revising your (I'm sure well intentioned but shall we say incomplete) assumptions about the economic contribution of Turks.
Full paper here.
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Don't see why there is any reason to see racist intent here. Indeed I am offended to have my intentions questioned. I mention the restaurant connection as the clearly visible face of Turkish residency. If we can't discuss this issue freely without suspicion it says more about those who query it than anyone else. As an immigrant, I am well acquainted with these issues, and as someone who works with asylum seekers, I am aware that it is not always a good idea to probe too far. However many Turkish people live and work legally and freely here and I wonder about the legal basis for it. Those of Cypriot heritage clearly have links to Britain and come here as of right, but I don't know the basis for Turkish immigration.
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Sorry Hugh I'm not sure whether 'goes without question', 'benefit of the doubt' or 'think about revising' was the part I misread. I simply said I was glad of Turkish restaurants not that all Turks/Kurds were in the catering business. I'm not quite sure you don't need to recalibrate your liberal guilt radar....
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Wind your neck in Philip. I'm running a website that receives 300,000 views by 30,000 different people each month. Both morally and legally I have a responsibility to ensure that the website's view on contentious issues is clear and that we neither carry nor are perceived to carry material that contravenes our house rules or the law. I'd would have thought that this much was self-evident. I'm sorry but I offer no choices on this.
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Permalink Reply by Takaokagiejin on
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there is no data collection regarding where refugees and asylum seekers live (unless it is the small minority of asylum seekers who are in state funded accommodation) so there is no answer to your question. My understanding is that the the core of the Kurdish community in Harringay is formed of people fleeing ethnic oppression in Turkey in the 1990s. Kurdistan falls across land within Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria all of which are countries experiencing human rights abuses of such severity that the UK regularly grants refugee protection to their exiles. As with all diaspora communities new arrivals come to where they can find support then businesses start to develop et voila you have a community hub (think of the Spanish Costas).
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Huge number - the way you have phrased this is offensive - the assumption that a particular ethnic group must be refugees (how else would they get in the country) and are by implication defined by your food preferences is incredibly flippant. 4% haringey population born in Turkey, the majority arriving in the 90s.
If talking about ethnicity - stated ethnicity on census 10% turkish, 7% kurdish, 8% turkish cypriot of their respective UK communities live in Haringey.
Mostly are economic migrants. It took me all of 5 minutes to find this info.
The title of your post makes me cringe. Hopefully you use more considered language in your nine to five.
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Permalink Reply by Finsbury Park Ranger on
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If this thread is opener to discuss immigration lets do it head on ...
Any Turks that don't want to be ruled by the current nutcase who is running things at the moment in Turkey is a friend of mine before right from the start,.
More importantly though, economically we are up shit street, we have a tax and cuts tsunami coming our way. We can reduce pensions, devalue the pound or accept more immigration. It's as simple as that. Only three choices. I know which one I would prefer.
Is everyone legal that's working in the UK ? No they're not because politicians don't have the balls to say the truth and allow more immigrants in legally and instead allow them through the back door without making hardly any checks themselves (and we make endless threads about which one is the better cleaner in full knowledge they may well be illegal without checking ourselves ).
However happily we are one of the most fashionable countries for people to reside and we can enjoy an army of surplus cheap labour which means not having to pay double for holidays by devaluing the pound or take a MASSIVE cut to pensions because we can use the extra muscle to support the economy which badly needs to run well to be supporing a MASSIVE debt.
So to cut a long story short, immigrants are our saving grace In truth and we are not theirs, legal or
illegal.
So, next time you eat out which saved you making dinner and allowed you to work a little later or come back to a nice clean house or had that new cheap beautiful extension made, maybe it's worth keeping all this in mind.
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Can I come to Philip's defence here? I really don't see anything racist in his question. He just seems to me to be interested in demographics. The history and geography of population movements is of considerable interest. There are a preponderance of Turks in Haringey but of Bengalis say in Tower Hamlets. It's a fact and it can be interesting to look for the reasons. It's not racist to just talk about races for heaven's sake. Racism is to act or speak prejudicially against particular races which Philip certainly does not. I have good Turkish friends who would laugh at some of the responses here. Btw as Philip also implies it's interesting, and rather welcome I would say, that Turks and Kurds choose to live in the same area. So let's relax a bit about this, and not look for problems where none exist.
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