What if the council banned overtaking on Wightman Rd? - Harringay online2024-03-28T21:27:23Zhttps://harringayonline.com/forum/topics/what-if-we-banned-overtaking-on-wightman-rd?commentId=844301%3AComment%3A1050151&feed=yes&xn_auth=noalthough still no marked pede…tag:harringayonline.com,2018-01-22:844301:Comment:10516372018-01-22T12:07:30.704ZProtheroe O'Sheahttps://harringayonline.com/profile/TunbridgeWells
<p>although still no marked pedestrian crossing. </p>
<p>although still no marked pedestrian crossing. </p> Fair enough, we'll drop it to…tag:harringayonline.com,2018-01-22:844301:Comment:10517292018-01-22T11:56:01.146ZAndrewAW1https://harringayonline.com/profile/Andrew499
<p>Fair enough, we'll drop it to the majority of drivers admit to breaking the law by speeding. A cursory glance brings up these:</p>
<p><a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/525931/road-safety-biennial-survey.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/525931/road-safety-biennial-survey.pdf…</a></p>
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<p>Fair enough, we'll drop it to the majority of drivers admit to breaking the law by speeding. A cursory glance brings up these:</p>
<p><a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/525931/road-safety-biennial-survey.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/525931/road-safety-biennial-survey.pdf</a></p>
<p><a href="http://etsc.eu/uk-survey-reveals-many-drivers-exceeding-20-mph-limits/" target="_blank">http://etsc.eu/uk-survey-reveals-many-drivers-exceeding-20-mph-limits/</a></p>
<p><a href="https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/car-industry-news/2017/11/29/uk-drivers-admit-higher-speeding-fines-won-t-convince-them-to-slow-down" target="_blank">https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/car-industry-news/2017/11/29/uk-drivers-admit-higher-speeding-fines-won-t-convince-them-to-slow-down</a></p>
<p>For red light jumping, here's your data up to 2014:</p>
<p><a href="https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/pedestrian_ksi_1_from_red_light_2" target="_blank">https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/pedestrian_ksi_1_from_red_light_2</a></p>
<p>I'm sure you can look at it yourself. The headline is obviously that in the 10 years of statistics cyclists haven't killed anyone through jumping a red light, car drivers have killed 40 people and assorted others have been responsible for 12 deaths.</p> Survey date: "September 1, 20…tag:harringayonline.com,2018-01-22:844301:Comment:10517272018-01-22T11:28:48.269ZGodfreyhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/Godfrey
<p>Survey date: "<strong>September 1, 2009" -</strong> Are you seriously still touting this as some sort of topical response? I think I probably didn't reply before when we spoke because I couldn't take someone seriously who has scoured the internet for a dubious survey with results that add weight to their somewhat lightweight argument. Got any thing this decade? (doubt it).</p>
<p>The second link is from 2012 on what looks like a pro cycling website.</p>
<p>So Andrew, if you are going to…</p>
<p>Survey date: "<strong>September 1, 2009" -</strong> Are you seriously still touting this as some sort of topical response? I think I probably didn't reply before when we spoke because I couldn't take someone seriously who has scoured the internet for a dubious survey with results that add weight to their somewhat lightweight argument. Got any thing this decade? (doubt it).</p>
<p>The second link is from 2012 on what looks like a pro cycling website.</p>
<p>So Andrew, if you are going to reinforce your point, I'd appreciate you do a bit more research and actually come back with something a bit more current.</p>
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<p></p> I'd have no issue with cyclis…tag:harringayonline.com,2018-01-22:844301:Comment:10517212018-01-22T11:14:21.725ZAndrewAW1https://harringayonline.com/profile/Andrew499
<p>I'd have no issue with cyclists having their bikes confiscated and crushed for jumping red lights if no overtaking of cycles was introduced on Wightman Road and car drivers had their cars had their cars confiscated and crushed when they broke that rule.</p>
<p>It would work out fine for me, I don't jump red lights when cycling but I have had any number of risky overtakes on Wightman Road. The need for car drivers to reach that next chicane before me, even if I'm going 18-20mph, seems to be…</p>
<p>I'd have no issue with cyclists having their bikes confiscated and crushed for jumping red lights if no overtaking of cycles was introduced on Wightman Road and car drivers had their cars had their cars confiscated and crushed when they broke that rule.</p>
<p>It would work out fine for me, I don't jump red lights when cycling but I have had any number of risky overtakes on Wightman Road. The need for car drivers to reach that next chicane before me, even if I'm going 18-20mph, seems to be extreme in some cases. </p> I had no idea I'd already deb…tag:harringayonline.com,2018-01-22:844301:Comment:10517202018-01-22T11:10:37.164ZAndrewAW1https://harringayonline.com/profile/Andrew499
<p>I had no idea I'd already debated this with you before (unlike yourself my contributions on here involve more than anecdotes about how nearly every cyclist you see breaks the law) and you were one of those people who somehow feel there is collective responsibility for cyclists but not for car drivers.</p>
<p>I have actually provided the links to you before (you went strangely quiet when I provided empirical evidence that contradicted your prejudices) but here they are again if you…</p>
<p>I had no idea I'd already debated this with you before (unlike yourself my contributions on here involve more than anecdotes about how nearly every cyclist you see breaks the law) and you were one of those people who somehow feel there is collective responsibility for cyclists but not for car drivers.</p>
<p>I have actually provided the links to you before (you went strangely quiet when I provided empirical evidence that contradicted your prejudices) but here they are again if you like.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.traffictechnologytoday.com/news.php?NewsID=15562" target="_blank">http://www.traffictechnologytoday.com/news.php?NewsID=15562</a></p>
<p><a href="http://cyclinginfo.co.uk/blog/4756/cycling/stats-red-lights/index.html" target="_blank">http://cyclinginfo.co.uk/blog/4756/cycling/stats-red-lights/index.html</a></p>
<p></p> Keep talking.
By the way, you…tag:harringayonline.com,2018-01-22:844301:Comment:10516972018-01-22T09:49:32.368ZJohn McMullanhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/bogan72
<p>Keep talking.</p>
<p>By the way, you're just some person who joined up to post about the Green Lanes traffic protest, you're not even from around here. All your posts are the same hateful anti-cyclist crap with no evidence to back yourself up and just your own silly straw-polls.</p>
<p>Keep talking.</p>
<p>By the way, you're just some person who joined up to post about the Green Lanes traffic protest, you're not even from around here. All your posts are the same hateful anti-cyclist crap with no evidence to back yourself up and just your own silly straw-polls.</p> yup, I know. it looks like t…tag:harringayonline.com,2018-01-22:844301:Comment:10518432018-01-22T09:28:34.169ZProtheroe O'Sheahttps://harringayonline.com/profile/TunbridgeWells
<p>yup, I know. it looks like they might change that junction and the Endymion Rd zebra crossing thanks to the hard work of a local resident. </p>
<p>yup, I know. it looks like they might change that junction and the Endymion Rd zebra crossing thanks to the hard work of a local resident. </p> " the alroy and Endymion Rd c…tag:harringayonline.com,2018-01-22:844301:Comment:10516022018-01-22T07:09:44.457ZGordon Thttps://harringayonline.com/profile/GordonT
<p>"<span> the alroy and Endymion Rd crossing, both drivers and cyclists refuse to stop "</span></p>
<p>Very regrettably, in the recent reworking by the council of the Endymion Rd roundabout the opportunity to put in marked pedestrian crossings, rather than the ambiguous and effectively useless red strips across the road, was declined by the council. There was correspondence on HoL about it at the time with one of the ward councillors (who to be fair wasn't the prime mover of the scheme) but…</p>
<p>"<span> the alroy and Endymion Rd crossing, both drivers and cyclists refuse to stop "</span></p>
<p>Very regrettably, in the recent reworking by the council of the Endymion Rd roundabout the opportunity to put in marked pedestrian crossings, rather than the ambiguous and effectively useless red strips across the road, was declined by the council. There was correspondence on HoL about it at the time with one of the ward councillors (who to be fair wasn't the prime mover of the scheme) but who has now moved on.</p> as somone who owns neither a…tag:harringayonline.com,2018-01-21:844301:Comment:10516802018-01-21T22:40:19.825ZProtheroe O'Sheahttps://harringayonline.com/profile/TunbridgeWells
<p>as somone who owns neither a car or bike and who crosses roads on a daily basis I find both cyclist's and drivers equally irresponsible and selfish. take for example the alroy and Endymion Rd crossing, both drivers and cyclists refuse to stop meaning my son and I have to walk out into the road and hope they stop. I have noticed over the years that it has gotten worse. drivers and cyclists are becoming increasingly brash and aggressive. I would like to know what difference it makes to your…</p>
<p>as somone who owns neither a car or bike and who crosses roads on a daily basis I find both cyclist's and drivers equally irresponsible and selfish. take for example the alroy and Endymion Rd crossing, both drivers and cyclists refuse to stop meaning my son and I have to walk out into the road and hope they stop. I have noticed over the years that it has gotten worse. drivers and cyclists are becoming increasingly brash and aggressive. I would like to know what difference it makes to your lives if you just stopped and allowed pedestrians to cross the road safely? </p> I find car drivers' antipathy…tag:harringayonline.com,2018-01-21:844301:Comment:10515172018-01-21T22:07:28.657ZJoeWhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/joew
<p>I find <span style="display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: transparent; color: #000000; cursor: text; font-family: 'Lucida Grande','Lucida Sans Unicode',sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">car drivers' antipathy towards cyclists…</span></p>
<p>I find <span style="display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: transparent; color: #000000; cursor: text; font-family: 'Lucida Grande','Lucida Sans Unicode',sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">car drivers' antipathy towards cyclists quite</span> fascinating - apparently it has deep evolutionary roots - fittingly known as the "free-rider problem":</p>
<p>"<em><span style="text-align: left; color: #000000; text-transform: none; line-height: 27.9px; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: -0.1px; font-family: Arial,Helvetica,freesans,sans-serif; font-size: 18px; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; word-spacing: 0px; display: inline !important; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; float: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: transparent;">Driving is a very moral activity – there are rules of the road, both legal and informal, and there are good and bad drivers. The whole intricate dance of the rush-hour junction only works because people know the rules and by-and-large follow them: keeping in lane; indicating properly; first her turn, now mine, now yours.</span> <span style="margin: 0px; text-align: left; color: #000000; text-transform: none; line-height: 27.9px; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: -0.1px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: Arial,Helvetica,freesans,sans-serif; font-size: 18px; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; word-spacing: 0px; display: inline; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: transparent;"><span style="display: inline; font-size: 18px; letter-spacing: -0.1px; line-height: 27.9px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; margin: 0px;">Then along come cyclists, innocently following what they see are the rules of the road, but doing things that drivers aren't allowed to: overtaking queues of cars, moving at well below the speed limit or undertaking on the inside</span></span></em>"</p>
<p><span style="display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: transparent; color: #000000; cursor: text; font-family: 'Lucida Grande','Lucida Sans Unicode',sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><a href="http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20130212-why-you-really-hate-cyclists" target="_blank">http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20130212-why-you-really-hate-cyclists</a></span></p>