Voter Turnout Figures for Haringey by Ward - Harringay online2024-03-28T19:22:01Zhttps://harringayonline.com/forum/topics/voter-turnout-figures-for-haringey-by-ward?commentId=844301%3AComment%3A1489986&feed=yes&xn_auth=noHi James Ingram, You're obvio…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-05-13:844301:Comment:14907772022-05-13T08:38:25.209ZAlan Stantonhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/AlanStanton
<p>Hi James Ingram, You're obviously right to be astonished at the voter turnout figures. And I share your puzzlement.<br></br> In every single Haringey ward more than 20% of Haringey's registered voters went to the trouble of filling in a postal vote and taking it to a letter box. Even stranger, many of them went to a "polling station".</p>
<p>Maybe there should be a research project to look into this strange behaviour?<br></br> Addressing the problem? Well we know the addresses of…</p>
<p>Hi James Ingram, You're obviously right to be astonished at the voter turnout figures. And I share your puzzlement.<br/> In every single Haringey ward more than 20% of Haringey's registered voters went to the trouble of filling in a postal vote and taking it to a letter box. Even stranger, many of them went to a "polling station".</p>
<p>Maybe there should be a research project to look into this strange behaviour?<br/> Addressing the problem? Well we know the addresses of voters. Though not all. Some have second homes in other cities or countries.<br/> Civic Participation? Hmm. There's an interesting idea. What do you have in mnd?</p> How will new/ old council lea…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-05-13:844301:Comment:14907022022-05-13T01:39:54.198ZJames Ingramhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/JamesIngram
<p>How will new/ old council leader Peray + her fellow #Haringey councillors work to address the v low turnout across the borough, esp. in the most deprived wards?</p>
<p>How will Haringey Labour grow civic participation?</p>
<p></p>
<p><a href="https://twitter.com/James_Ingram_1/status/1522823716815749120?t=V4bs5Z8rIi9JxdPAz2ca4w&s=19" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/James_Ingram_1/status/1522823716815749120?t=V4bs5Z8rIi9JxdPAz2ca4w&s=19</a></p>
<p>How will new/ old council leader Peray + her fellow #Haringey councillors work to address the v low turnout across the borough, esp. in the most deprived wards?</p>
<p>How will Haringey Labour grow civic participation?</p>
<p></p>
<p><a href="https://twitter.com/James_Ingram_1/status/1522823716815749120?t=V4bs5Z8rIi9JxdPAz2ca4w&s=19" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/James_Ingram_1/status/1522823716815749120?t=V4bs5Z8rIi9JxdPAz2ca4w&s=19</a></p> Carol --
I was also at the me…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-05-13:844301:Comment:14907672022-05-13T00:07:05.800ZDonhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/DonKeller
<p>Carol --</p>
<p>I was also at the meeting and also can't remember the exact number of votes, but I think you're broadly correct. As to whether Momentum packed the meeting, all I'd add is that there were, from memory, around 45 members at the short-listing meeting and around 60 or so at the actual selection meeting. Now whether the extra 15 were all supporters of the selected candidates/Momentum members I've no way of knowing, nor do I know what proportion of the total ward membership was…</p>
<p>Carol --</p>
<p>I was also at the meeting and also can't remember the exact number of votes, but I think you're broadly correct. As to whether Momentum packed the meeting, all I'd add is that there were, from memory, around 45 members at the short-listing meeting and around 60 or so at the actual selection meeting. Now whether the extra 15 were all supporters of the selected candidates/Momentum members I've no way of knowing, nor do I know what proportion of the total ward membership was represented, but it's presumably possible that the extrta bodies at the selection meeting was what got the candidates over the line in any case.</p> Alan -- While agreeing with t…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-05-12:844301:Comment:14908432022-05-12T23:57:29.660ZDonhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/DonKeller
<p>Alan -- While agreeing with the gist of your comments, I'd say that in St Ann's the potential questions to candidates in the selection meeting were all put forward by members on the night, then three were selected by the rep from Labour Central who was running the meeting, with an option given for anyone to query his choice or add others, before they were put to all the candidates individually in the same way. Now it's possible that the questions were all decided by supporters of the…</p>
<p>Alan -- While agreeing with the gist of your comments, I'd say that in St Ann's the potential questions to candidates in the selection meeting were all put forward by members on the night, then three were selected by the rep from Labour Central who was running the meeting, with an option given for anyone to query his choice or add others, before they were put to all the candidates individually in the same way. Now it's possible that the questions were all decided by supporters of the successful candidates beforehand, but the choice of which ones to put (which seemed reasonable and mostly along the lines of "what do you see as the biggest challenges?") from the 9 or 10 proposed was not in their hands. It seemed to me to be a well-run meeting within the rules applying; whether you think <em>they</em> are fair is another matter, of course.</p> Another factor which led to t…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-05-11:844301:Comment:14905392022-05-11T19:15:58.067ZAlan Stantonhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/AlanStanton
<p>Another factor which led to the low initially reported Voter Turnout figures was a mess-up spotted by local campaigner Paul Burnham (and others) who alerted Mr Andy Donald the Chief Executive, and Election Returning Officer.<br></br> For people not on various social media groups, here's what I received on Granddad's traditional email. Read bottom-up, of course. ~<br></br><br></br>___________________________________________</p>
<p><br></br>From: Paul Burnham <br></br>To: Andy Donald <br></br>Cc: Fiona…</p>
<p>Another factor which led to the low initially reported Voter Turnout figures was a mess-up spotted by local campaigner Paul Burnham (and others) who alerted Mr Andy Donald the Chief Executive, and Election Returning Officer.<br/> For people not on various social media groups, here's what I received on Granddad's traditional email. Read bottom-up, of course. ~<br/><br/>___________________________________________</p>
<p><br/>From: Paul Burnham <br/>To: Andy Donald <br/>Cc: Fiona Alderman; Cllr Peray Ahmet; "Cllr Luke Cawley-Harrison <br/>Sent: Tuesday, 10 May, 2022 <br/>Subject: Official complaint re. discrepancies in published election results</p>
<p>Good afternoon Mr Donald</p>
<p>Thank you for updating the percentage turnout for West Green Ward on the Council's election results webpage.</p>
<p>I would be grateful if you could also publish the numerical turnout for West Green Ward, this remains unamended with the incorrect figure of 2,974.</p>
<p>Kind regards</p>
<p>Paul Burnham</p>
<p>------ Original Message ------<br/>From: Paul Burnham <br/>To: Andy.Donald<br/>Cc: [as above] <br/>Sent: Tuesday, 10 May, 2022 At 23:57<br/>Subject: [As above]</p>
<p>Dear Mr Donald</p>
<p>Thank you for your early and helpful response to my complaint.</p>
<p>I have noted that six of the seven affected Wards are now shown with higher turnouts on the Council's election results webpage.</p>
<p>However I was disappointed to see that the turnout has not yet been adjusted for West Green Ward. I would be grateful if the postal votes could be added there as well.</p>
<p>Thank you for contacting Wikipedia. However there will be many other sites (among them being London Councils) which have referenced the original borough turnout figure of 31.76%.</p>
<p>The revised figure of 34.44% is a significant difference (2.68% higher), with 4,098 additional votes posted up so far. It is also a good news story, and therefore I suggest that the Council does a full press release with the new data, to ensure that the facts have as much currency as possible, driving out the faulty information which has been published in error.</p>
<p>I would be grateful for your response to these suggestions.</p>
<p>My digest of the turnout figures is attached as a jpeg.</p>
<p>Kind regards</p>
<p>Paul Burnham</p>
<p>------ Original Message ------<br/>From: Andy.Donald<br/>To: Paul Burnham <br/>Cc: [As above]<br/>Sent: Monday, 9 May, 2022 At 17:49<br/>Subject: [As above]</p>
<p>Dear Mr Burnham</p>
<p>Thank you for your email.</p>
<p>This issue was brought to our attention over the weekend. We counted using three zones, each consisting of 7 wards. It appears that the information published on our website did not contain the correct turnout figures (i.e. total number of ballot papers) for one of these counting zones. This counting zone team incorrectly sent the verification data to our web team, after inputting the postal voting ballot paper data – but before pressing save.<br/>This meant that for one of our counting zones, the web-team was only provided with the turnout from our polling stations, and not the total turnout for that ward (which should have included both polling station and postal voting turnout).<br/> All ballot papers (from polling stations and postal voting) were correctly included within the count figures and in the verification figure published on the statutory notice of result.<br/>Our website has been updated, and I have requested the web team work with Wikipedia to correct their pages.<br/> In answer to your specific queries:<br/>1. I have set out the discrepancy above – the web team had been provided with the correct count results but turnout data that did not include postal voting ballot papers<br/>2. A notice of result is being issued to all election agents and candidates. This includes the correct verification figure / turnout<br/>3. I can confirm that all unused ballot papers were verified overnight on Thursday 5 – Friday 6 May. These were kept sealed and separate throughout the count and are now sealed in secure storage<br/>4. Each of the 21 wards’ ballot papers began with the same ballot paper number (5000001 for polling station ballot papers, 3000001 for postal voting ballot papers). Each ward is also allocated a three-letter ward code. Each ballot paper also contains a Unique Identifying Mark (UIM) which is the ballot paper number and the three-letter ward code combined – this ensures there is no ballot paper within the borough containing the same UIM.<br/>5. As mentioned above, the reason for the discrepancy on our website was due to the postal voting ballot paper turnout figures not being included in the turnout published on our website for one of our count zones. This error has now been corrected and we are looking into this to ensure this does not happen at future elections.<br/>I apologise for the confusion this caused and I hope this reassures you as the accuracy of the Haringey count.</p>
<p>Best wishes<br/>Andy<br/>Andy Donald<br/>Chief Executive<br/>Haringey Council</p>
<p>------ Original Message ------<br/>From: Paul Burnham <br/>Sent: 07 May 2022 22:15<br/>To: Andy Donald <br/>Cc: [As above]</p>
<p>Dear Mr Donald</p>
<p>I am writing to you in your capacity as Returning Officer for the borough elections on 5 May.<br/>In five of the Wards, the published total vote for the candidates exceeded the published the published turnout figure as follows:</p>
<p>• In St Ann’s, candidates received 4,201 votes in total in a two member ward, which means there must have been at least 2,101 valid ballot papers; and presumably more, because not all voters use all of their available votes. But the published result says that only 1,720 voted there.<br/>• In Stroud Green, candidates received 10,922 votes in total in a three member ward, which means there must have been at least 3,641 valid ballot papers; and presumably more, because not all voters use all of their available votes. But the published result says that only 3,065 voted there.<br/>• In Tottenham Central, candidates received 7,841 votes in total in a three member ward, which means there must have been at least 2,614 valid ballot papers. But the published result says that only 2,010 voted there, with.<br/>• In Tottenham Hale, candidates received 5,318 votes in total in a three member ward, which means there must have been at least 1,773 valid ballot papers. But the published result says that only 1,407 voted there.<br/>• In White Hart Lane, candidates received 7,637 votes in total in a three member ward, which means there must have been at least 2,546 valid ballot papers. But the published result says that only 2,011 voted there.</p>
<p>It seems evident that you have failed in your duties in relation to the conduct, reporting, probity and integrity of these elections.<br/> You should have accurately reported both the numbers of votes secured by each candidate, and the total number of votes cast and the turnout, in these five wards, but that has not been the case. <br/> Wikipedia has already faithfully posted up your election returns, showing that the lead candidate in Tottenham Central Ward received 99.7% of the vote (see the attached image). I personally do not believe that to be true, but how can we be sure?<br/>I would be grateful if you could:<br/>(1) Explain the discrepancies listed above. <br/>(2) Inform all the candidates for the above five Wards of the discrepancies in the published results.<br/>(3) Verify that the unused ballot papers from the polling stations remained in the sealed boxes returned from the polling stations.<br/>(4) Verify that no ballot papers shared duplicate numbers.<br/>(5) Did the borough perhaps exclude postal votes from the turnout figures – and if so, why?<br/>I am copying this letter to Fiona Alderman. the Monitoring Officer, and to Cllrs Ahmet and Cawley-Harrison.</p>
<p>Kind regards</p>
<p>Paul Burnham</p> @Straw Cat: "As no doubt Alan…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-05-09:844301:Comment:14901382022-05-09T10:28:18.848ZAlan Stantonhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/AlanStanton
<p><em>@Straw Cat<strong>:</strong> "As no doubt Alan, you know well."</em></p>
<p>Interesting question. As a councillor some of us knew, or maybe guessed, what dodginess was going on. And who was dodgy. Sometimes we were wrong and the people turned out to be making the right decision for the the right reason. Sometimes when they made a wrong decision it turned out they were simply gullible; someone else's patsy; or a stupid person making a stupid judgement.<br></br><br></br>Cllr Julie Davies recalling…</p>
<p><em>@Straw Cat<strong>:</strong> "As no doubt Alan, you know well."</em></p>
<p>Interesting question. As a councillor some of us knew, or maybe guessed, what dodginess was going on. And who was dodgy. Sometimes we were wrong and the people turned out to be making the right decision for the the right reason. Sometimes when they made a wrong decision it turned out they were simply gullible; someone else's patsy; or a stupid person making a stupid judgement.<br/><br/>Cllr Julie Davies recalling her teaching experience, told me she often heard:<br/><em> "Some other boys did it and ran away.</em><br/> - Or- <br/><em> "A big girl made me do it."<br/><br/></em>That could apply to other boroughs as well as Haringey.<br/>__________________<br/><br/>P.S. Have you read <strong>the poetry of Donald Rumsfeld</strong> ? This is the most famous.</p>
<p class="slate-paragraph slate-graf"><strong><em>"The Unknown</em><br/></strong><em> As we know,</em> <br/><em> There are known knowns.</em> <br/><em> There are things we know we know.</em> <br/><em> </em> <em>We also know</em> <br/><em> There are known unknowns.</em> <br/><em> That is to say</em> <br/><em> We know there are some things</em> <br/><em> We do not know.<br/></em><em> But there are also unknown unknowns,</em> <br/><em> The ones we don’t know</em> <br/><em> We don’t know."</em></p>
<p class="slate-paragraph slate-graf">—Feb. 12, 2002, Department of Defense news briefing<em><br/></em><strong>Source:</strong> Slate Magazine<br/><a rel="nofollow noopener" href="https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2003/04/the-poetry-of-donald-rumsfeld.html" target="_blank">https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2003/04/the-poetry-of-donald-ru...</a><br/><br/>PPS, As I seem to recall T. Dan Smith both protested his innocence and pleaded guilty. In Haringey they are all innocent, <em>"all honourable men."</em></p> Well actually that is seven.…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-05-07:844301:Comment:14901062022-05-07T20:31:34.072ZBrian Mahoneyhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/BrianMahoney
<p>Well actually that is seven. And I like them all. Looks like a sound agenda to me. Thanks for taking the time to lay it out and best of luck.</p>
<p>Will you run in St St Ann's next time? Please.</p>
<p>Well actually that is seven. And I like them all. Looks like a sound agenda to me. Thanks for taking the time to lay it out and best of luck.</p>
<p>Will you run in St St Ann's next time? Please.</p> The polling station for West…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-05-07:844301:Comment:14902712022-05-07T19:39:20.201ZHarringay 4evahttps://harringayonline.com/profile/AbiTownsend
<p>The polling station for West Green had moved this time. When we got to the usual polling station (Wisdom primary school on west green road/Phillip lane) there was a group of people there who also hadn’t noticed the location had changed. When we went online Haringey website said there were now 2 polling stations in West Green. Most of us didn’t have our polling cards so then had to go home to find out which polling station to go to. Ours turned out to be at the Milton road community centre,…</p>
<p>The polling station for West Green had moved this time. When we got to the usual polling station (Wisdom primary school on west green road/Phillip lane) there was a group of people there who also hadn’t noticed the location had changed. When we went online Haringey website said there were now 2 polling stations in West Green. Most of us didn’t have our polling cards so then had to go home to find out which polling station to go to. Ours turned out to be at the Milton road community centre, near the junction with Green Lanes. It turned out to be quite a ordeal. Obviously we should have checked our polling cards before we left the house but it does make me wonder how many people were deterred by this. The map on the polling card didn’t make it immediately obvious where the Milton road community centre was.</p>
<p>I knew in advance that on this occasion there weren’t any Green or independent candidates, so just the usual 3 choices. Outside the polling station there was another small group. Nobody there had had a visit from any potential candidates & they were talking amongst themselves about who to vote for & why. Everyone said they hadn’t had a flyer through the door either. There were no representatives from any of the parties outside the polling station. <br/><br/></p>
<p>I’m sure these are the sort of things which led to the 21% turnout in West Green.</p> Thank you Brian. To answer yo…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-05-07:844301:Comment:14901042022-05-07T17:28:27.549ZZena Brabazonhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/zenab
<p>Thank you Brian. To answer your first question:</p>
<p>The top issues raised on the doorstep were all to do with traffic and the impact on our environment. Parking and customer services were raised many times and I have already followed this up with the officers. People were very frank and I appreciated that and followed up. I can't say this will change immediately, but I did respond and I am clear this is a huge issue.</p>
<p>Other issues related to the environment - air quality and…</p>
<p>Thank you Brian. To answer your first question:</p>
<p>The top issues raised on the doorstep were all to do with traffic and the impact on our environment. Parking and customer services were raised many times and I have already followed this up with the officers. People were very frank and I appreciated that and followed up. I can't say this will change immediately, but I did respond and I am clear this is a huge issue.</p>
<p>Other issues related to the environment - air quality and pollution; improving conditions for cycling; the state of some Ladder roads (for example, Hewitt, Allison and Beresford, especially regarding pavements which have been tarmacked); Wightman Road and plans for dealing with the impact of the St Ann's LTN. People also raised drug dealing in the ward, anti-social behaviour and policing, and in particular in Harringay Passage; tree roots which, having walked the entire ward several times over the last few weeks I can see are a big problem. Licensing, noise, HMOs are also issues on the doorstep. Our ward has at least 350 licensed HMOs.</p>
<p>People raise all sorts of things - it was nice to hear someone praise our investment in libraries and early years provision; and I think people were very pleased to hear we have a no cuts budget, with investment of £6.5m into children's social care for example. Our commitment to a new youth centre in Wood Green, opening this summer, was really welcomed. These are just some examples. </p>
<p>Of course, people did raise the planned investment to restore our Grade 2 listed Civic Centre. This is a capital scheme and, to set the record straight, is a separate budget from the revenue budget. </p>
<p>Top five local changes. These are from me. I will talk to my colleagues about this but wanted to give you something to go on!</p>
<p>1. To see more resident involvement and participation in local issues. </p>
<p>I can't make that happen by myself, but I really welcome it as I think we will get more achieved. I work closely with the Ladder Community Safety Partnership on crime, environment, planning and enforcement issues and have found that joint working really positive. Ian Sygrave and I really pressed the police for more officers and to focus on the drug dealing. We met the police together and just kept on. We did achieve some success which we need to sustain. Same goes for working with Harringay Ladder Healthy Living Streets who have built up a strong and active membership. We need this as we work together on the Harringay Ladder Transport Project now underway, so we get the best outcomes for our ward from all the ideas and research. </p>
<p>2. Regarding the Harringay ward traffic and transport project (consultation should be starting imminently now the electing is over) I would like it to include the state of the pavements, provision of more bike hangars and the timetable for school streets for North and South Harringay Schools alongside the bigger overarching issues of Green Lanes and Wightman Road. </p>
<p>2. I think having a local forum for both Fairland and Ducketts Common would be good to ensure they are looked after and have resources. I know there are Friends' groups but I think we might need to build on them.</p>
<p>3. I have been to Mountview Court several times, and I really would like to see investment in the stairwells and the grounds. Having a lively tenants' and residents' association would really help in campaigning. </p>
<p>4. More local engagement in responding to planning and licensing applications. Licensing is an issue in Harringay ward and we now incorporate both sides of Green Lanes. Applications only go to the committee if there are objections, and keeping on top of it all is sometimes difficult. I will object as ward councillor, but if residents are concerned, you do need to submit an objection, and, if things go wrong once a license is granted ( which does happen) then having residents come forward to say what is going on is very important to get things changed. I would like to see us really have more engagement with enforcement officers as there are many issues in the ward related to enforcement of standards HMOs, noise ASB etc. Regarding planning, to ensure we are on top of HMO applications, as the ward is designated a family protection zone!</p>
<p>5. The council does not provide transport as you know, but if we did , I would like to have a hoppa bus on route which includes Wightman and Ladder roads. I think a small local bus would really help older people, people with disabilities and everyone really. It might contribute to reducing car use, but that would have to come from Transport for London. </p>
<p>You asked for five, but one more - as part of our current investment n Turnpike Lane, to sort out the entrance to Harringay Passage. This has been raised by residents, and I have it on my 'to advocate for' list.</p>
<p>Best wishes<br/><br/>Zena</p>
<p></p>
<p>Zena Brabazon</p>
<p>Cllr, Harringay ward</p>
<p></p>
<p></p> Actually, Alan, I’ve said tha…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-05-07:844301:Comment:14901012022-05-07T17:02:39.726ZCarol Tennanthttps://harringayonline.com/profile/CarolTennant
<p>Actually, Alan, I’ve said that they were campaigning for weeks, but I asked my son about it, and he reckons it was in fact about a week. Memory not what it was etc.</p>
<p>Actually, Alan, I’ve said that they were campaigning for weeks, but I asked my son about it, and he reckons it was in fact about a week. Memory not what it was etc.</p>