The Stables building at St Ann's - Harringay online2024-03-29T13:04:40Zhttps://harringayonline.com/forum/topics/the-stables-building-at-st-ann-s?commentId=844301%3AComment%3A1472226&feed=yes&xn_auth=noHi Viv
Hope you are keeping w…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-10-08:844301:Comment:15106122022-10-08T13:23:19.239ZMachttps://harringayonline.com/profile/Mac376
<p class="p1"><span class="s1">Hi Viv</span></p>
<p class="p2">Hope you are keeping well, I’m Rebecca, (the person who spoke to Hugh about the waterway under Salisbury’s Mansions on St Ann’s road), and it’s really great to chat with you! I seen your post on the history of the St Ann’s Hospital and the lake which originated there (with boats); as you probably gather from my post on the subject, I am so intrigued by all this!<br></br></p>
<p class="p2">So the story goes that when my husband was a…</p>
<p class="p1"><span class="s1">Hi Viv</span></p>
<p class="p2">Hope you are keeping well, I’m Rebecca, (the person who spoke to Hugh about the waterway under Salisbury’s Mansions on St Ann’s road), and it’s really great to chat with you! I seen your post on the history of the St Ann’s Hospital and the lake which originated there (with boats); as you probably gather from my post on the subject, I am so intrigued by all this!<br/></p>
<p class="p2">So the story goes that when my husband was a boy, he was overlooking the back garden of 47 Salisbury Mansions (from his neighbour’s back garden at 57 Kimberley Gardens). He witnessed seeing a door unlocked in the garden, with some steps which led down to a wooden boat with oars on some water. This was prob around 1979/1980.<br/></p>
<p class="p2">In 1999 we sent a note through the door of the Mansions, explaining what he had seen all those years ago. Number 47 kindly answered us by sending a note back to my husband at Kimberley Gardens, stating that he is correct however, they had to board-up the door and the steps in the 80’s, as the water kept rising upwards and flooding the place! When we had time, we went to see the residents of no.47 in 2000, but the apartment had new owners, and they said they knew nothing of this waterway!<br/></p>
<p class="p2">We then looked on Google Earth at the back garden of no. 47, and we can see what appears to be something like a black ‘shed’ that has closed over the door and the steps.<br/></p>
<p class="p2">It has been a mystery to us for so long and still is, because this ‘lake’ does not appear on any maps or documentation! I am so intrigued, yet also happy that another person has corroborated something along the lines of a ‘secret’ underground lake at St Ann’s road. Is there anything else you can tell me about this? When did you make contact with the Estates Manager? Do you think Harringay Council may have any further information on this?<br/></p>
<p class="p2">I am going to by writing to the Society, who is the freeholder of these mansions, to see if they can shed any light on the subject.<br/></p>
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<p class="p1"><span class="s1">If this is the case (that there is some ‘secret underground waterway’), it is a shame that this space will be utilised for another ‘development,’ than to sustain its history!</span></p>
<p class="p2"></p> I expect the site of the spri…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-01-16:844301:Comment:14723292022-01-16T17:58:51.019ZHughhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/hjuk
<p>I expect the site of the spring is the area of blue shown in the surveyor's 1891 map. That's not hard to credit. I know there was underground water elsewhere in the area - see the text in <a href="https://harringayonline.com/group/historyofharringay/forum/topics/a-river-through-it-development-of-the-new-river-and-water-works-i" rel="noopener" target="_blank">this article</a> above and below Fig. 18). But the lake is a tough one to take on board.…</p>
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<p>I expect the site of the spring is the area of blue shown in the surveyor's 1891 map. That's not hard to credit. I know there was underground water elsewhere in the area - see the text in <a href="https://harringayonline.com/group/historyofharringay/forum/topics/a-river-through-it-development-of-the-new-river-and-water-works-i" target="_blank" rel="noopener">this article</a> above and below Fig. 18). But the lake is a tough one to take on board.</p>
<p><a href="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/10016398664?profile=original" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><img src="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/10016398664?profile=RESIZE_710x" class="align-center"/></a></p> Yup, absolutely sure of the p…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-01-16:844301:Comment:14723112022-01-16T15:37:09.922ZVivYhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/VivY
<p>Yup, absolutely sure of the presence of the spring. Info came from Estates staff, Josh, who has been there over 40 years. The documented confirmation would be in the development plans for the Greentrees ward done by the North Middlesex hospital building team - sorry don't know their exact name but then undertook all hospital building work in the area.</p>
<p>Other staff mentioned that in 1987 there were a lot of ducks living on hospital grounds. </p>
<p>The Underground lake is more…</p>
<p>Yup, absolutely sure of the presence of the spring. Info came from Estates staff, Josh, who has been there over 40 years. The documented confirmation would be in the development plans for the Greentrees ward done by the North Middlesex hospital building team - sorry don't know their exact name but then undertook all hospital building work in the area.</p>
<p>Other staff mentioned that in 1987 there were a lot of ducks living on hospital grounds. </p>
<p>The Underground lake is more difficult to verify. I even spoke with Ernest Goffe's son, Michael, in 2018 to see if he had any photos- hoping that as with many a good Edwardian he had taken up the new trendy hobby. Unfortuantely no lead there.</p>
<p>Josh also recently said that there were cow sheds when he started. They were torn down to build the prefab Stores by the SINC.</p> Re Block 6, sorry, I wasn't c…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-01-15:844301:Comment:14722902022-01-15T23:56:59.209ZHughhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/hjuk
<p>Re Block 6, sorry, I wasn't clear. I was referring to the northern portion of the building which was the Matron's house. The rest of it was for grand reception rooms etc.</p>
<p>Are you sure about this lake? It's been a few years since I did my research on the development of the land from 1600 to the mid 20th century, but I can't recall any lake. The old nurse's blocks / Greenacres were built on part of the land of Hanger Green House. The surveyor's sale plans for the house in 1891 show a…</p>
<p>Re Block 6, sorry, I wasn't clear. I was referring to the northern portion of the building which was the Matron's house. The rest of it was for grand reception rooms etc.</p>
<p>Are you sure about this lake? It's been a few years since I did my research on the development of the land from 1600 to the mid 20th century, but I can't recall any lake. The old nurse's blocks / Greenacres were built on part of the land of Hanger Green House. The surveyor's sale plans for the house in 1891 show a tiny area of water on the western boundary of the grounds that would have been where the nurses's blocks were, but nothing anywhere big enough for a boat: it was possibly just about big enough to have merited the description of 'pond'. The 1818 parish map is in colour and shows all bodies of water clearly in blue. There is nothing in any of the St Ann's lands, just a small body of water at the edge of the roadway, opposite what is now Blackboy Lane.</p>
<p>The Tottenham Tithe map of 1844 shows no bodies of water or waterways on St Ann's Lands.</p>
<p>I had <a href="https://harringayonline.com/forum/topics/salisbury-road-mansions-history" target="_blank" rel="noopener">an exchange with someone last year</a> who is convinced that there is/was an underground waterway under Salisbury Mansions. I'm pretty much sure there isn't and never has been. I checked with Deborah at Bruce Castle and she agreed. </p>
<p>There seems to be a persistent idea about mystical waterways off St Ann's Road. So, who knows maybe there's something in it. Can you help me out and direct me to the maps that show this Hanger Green lake.</p>
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<p>Regarding common land, I made a copy of the 1883 Tottenham Commons map when I was doing my research and the only common lands showing for St Ann’s/Hanger Lane were very thin strips along the edge of the road. Something tells me that I found something in the NEF Hospital sub-committee minute books about those commons being handed over to the hospital. But I may be misremembering and I'd have to check that. </p>
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<p>By the way, those committee minute books make interesting reading. They chart the development of the hospital and reveal that nurses first lived in ‘accommodation huts’ split into ‘cubicles’ and the admin offices having been housed in ‘administration huts’. Things were pretty basic to begin with. By the end of 1892, Mayfield House housed a committee room and clinical assistant's office on the ground floor.</p> Sorry - Gate House.
Block 6 w…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-01-15:844301:Comment:14723832022-01-15T21:30:45.835ZVivYhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/VivY
<p>Sorry - Gate House.</p>
<p>Block 6 was always Main clinical offices and the grand room for the Superintendent.</p>
<p>The nursing accommodation was demolished in mid 80s when the Greentrees were built. There was a spring, reported to form a lake (with boats) under a building. It was capped. Lake visible on old maps.</p>
<p>Do you know how to verify if North site is Common Land? The lake would mark it out as an important stopping place for livestock being driven in to London </p>
<p>Sorry - Gate House.</p>
<p>Block 6 was always Main clinical offices and the grand room for the Superintendent.</p>
<p>The nursing accommodation was demolished in mid 80s when the Greentrees were built. There was a spring, reported to form a lake (with boats) under a building. It was capped. Lake visible on old maps.</p>
<p>Do you know how to verify if North site is Common Land? The lake would mark it out as an important stopping place for livestock being driven in to London </p> Block 6 is good. I think orig…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-01-15:844301:Comment:14722262022-01-15T20:25:24.004ZHughhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/hjuk
<p>Block 6 is good. I think originally that was mixed use for nurse home and I think admin reception rooms. Some nice rooms there. I don't recall being struck by anything particular in the part of the admin block they're keeping, but some nice original features. What's Hate House? (Mulberry or Acacia?)</p>
<p>Block 6 is good. I think originally that was mixed use for nurse home and I think admin reception rooms. Some nice rooms there. I don't recall being struck by anything particular in the part of the admin block they're keeping, but some nice original features. What's Hate House? (Mulberry or Acacia?)</p> Currently the buildings being…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-01-15:844301:Comment:14722862022-01-15T20:08:21.982ZVivYhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/VivY
<p>Currently the buildings being retained are Mayfield House, Hate Housr, Block 6 (they call it the Peace Building) to west of main Picnic Lawn, Admin Building 1900 arch amd integral wings to east and west only. These Building discussed as being for community use in thatvthey may contain community oriented tated facilities e.g. healthcare but not necessarily open public access.</p>
<p>The Water Tower is also on the list to be retained. It is still in use to prop up the water pressure across…</p>
<p>Currently the buildings being retained are Mayfield House, Hate Housr, Block 6 (they call it the Peace Building) to west of main Picnic Lawn, Admin Building 1900 arch amd integral wings to east and west only. These Building discussed as being for community use in thatvthey may contain community oriented tated facilities e.g. healthcare but not necessarily open public access.</p>
<p>The Water Tower is also on the list to be retained. It is still in use to prop up the water pressure across the site. No official discussion about change of use or whether it will be retained for community, private residential or whatever.</p>
<p>Maps and modrl below are from the public consultation 9th Dec 2021.</p> So, what buildings ARE they k…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-01-15:844301:Comment:14722842022-01-15T18:31:25.644ZHughhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/hjuk
<p>So, what buildings ARE they keeping now?</p>
<p>So, what buildings ARE they keeping now?</p> I think community expressing…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-01-15:844301:Comment:14722822022-01-15T17:17:46.200ZVivYhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/VivY
<p>I think community expressing their concerns about destruction of the local built heritage is essential. However who do you express concerns to?</p>
<p>I have spoken with the Catalyst Project Director and was told that the current plans are based on the brief issued by the GLA in the development bid process. </p>
<p>The GLA made the decision to ignore the pledges to retain the Admin building and majority demotion was only revealed last summer when Catalyst public consultations .</p>
<p>GLA…</p>
<p>I think community expressing their concerns about destruction of the local built heritage is essential. However who do you express concerns to?</p>
<p>I have spoken with the Catalyst Project Director and was told that the current plans are based on the brief issued by the GLA in the development bid process. </p>
<p>The GLA made the decision to ignore the pledges to retain the Admin building and majority demotion was only revealed last summer when Catalyst public consultations .</p>
<p>GLA hand over Legal possession this Spring.</p>
<p>Catslyst is due to merge with Peabody this Spring. </p> It isn't listed but was highl…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-01-15:844301:Comment:14723752022-01-15T17:09:26.648ZVivYhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/VivY
<p>It isn't listed but was highlighted on the draft Haringey Heritage building list in 2015. </p>
<p>Hold that thought.</p>
<p>It isn't listed but was highlighted on the draft Haringey Heritage building list in 2015. </p>
<p>Hold that thought.</p>