St Ann’s LTN: motorcycle racetrack - Harringay online2024-03-29T13:54:41Zhttps://harringayonline.com/forum/topics/st-ann-s-ltn-motorcycle-racetrack?commentId=844301%3AComment%3A1515810&feed=yes&xn_auth=noAlan — No, it’s sound advice.…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-11-14:844301:Comment:15163452022-11-14T13:56:32.090ZDonhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/DonKeller
<p>Alan — No, it’s sound advice. My original query was because I got the impression (anecdotally) that this might be a problem after having to dodge two motorbikes and a scooter all belting up Glenwood Road in line astern one morning and hearing numerous others in the course of the day. So I asked really to see if I was imagining a problem or if other people’s experiences accorded with mine; clearly some do, but there hasn’t exactly been a torrent of evidence, so perhaps I was generalising from…</p>
<p>Alan — No, it’s sound advice. My original query was because I got the impression (anecdotally) that this might be a problem after having to dodge two motorbikes and a scooter all belting up Glenwood Road in line astern one morning and hearing numerous others in the course of the day. So I asked really to see if I was imagining a problem or if other people’s experiences accorded with mine; clearly some do, but there hasn’t exactly been a torrent of evidence, so perhaps I was generalising from the particular. You’re right that any complaints to councillors or Haringey should be evidence-based; meanwhile, it’d be good if the officers could answer my still-outstanding e-mail queries from August. </p> Can I please suggest Don, tha…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-11-13:844301:Comment:15161642022-11-13T18:13:23.172ZAlan Stantonhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/AlanStanton
<p>Can I please suggest Don, that if you want others to give their own observations it helps to list specific roads and junctions - perhaps with a screen grab of a map from Google. Together with your observations of the times when the problem is worse.</p>
<p>I'm a fan of the principle of <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em><a href="https://harringayonline.com/forum/topics/endymion-road-zebra-crossing?commentId=844301%3AComment%3A532049" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">genchi…</a></em></span></p>
<p>Can I please suggest Don, that if you want others to give their own observations it helps to list specific roads and junctions - perhaps with a screen grab of a map from Google. Together with your observations of the times when the problem is worse.</p>
<p>I'm a fan of the principle of <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em><a rel="nofollow noopener" href="https://harringayonline.com/forum/topics/endymion-road-zebra-crossing?commentId=844301%3AComment%3A532049" target="_blank">genchi genbutsu</a></em></span> (click for example) i.e. going to the place to take a hard look and find out what's going on at ground level. Which is what you've done and should assist the Council staff; your ward and the "cabinet" councillors; and other residents. Should anyone be disposed to join you in this small research project. Some will.<br/><br/> Others may say something along lines such as: <em>"a review is underway, so please wait patiently and come back in six months"</em>. Which may be unfair of me. Because maybe they are already monitoring; learning about unintended consequences as you suggest; and tweaking the schemes as needed.<br/><br/>By the way, have you spoken to your St Ann's ward councillors? I don't know them. But my own past experience is that at least one councillor in a ward takes the job seriously. While another can be pretty hopeless. But you might be in luck.<br/><br/>Apologies if this is all obvious.</p> I'll publish the relevant sec…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-11-12:844301:Comment:15158102022-11-12T10:07:26.261ZHughhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/hjuk
<p>I'll publish the relevant section of the minutes when they are published - assuming that Ian Sygrave has chosen to minute that statement (which was made in response to a resident's question).</p>
<p>I'll publish the relevant section of the minutes when they are published - assuming that Ian Sygrave has chosen to minute that statement (which was made in response to a resident's question).</p> Gordon — Well, one policeman…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-11-11:844301:Comment:15159952022-11-11T23:16:49.983ZDonhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/DonKeller
<p>Gordon — Well, one policeman confirmed that “this” is happening (not sure if Hugh’s reference is to the riders or the number plates), but it doesn’t seem much of a basis for such a sweeping description. Are there other available reports or statistics? Can Hugh add any detail on what was said at the LCSP meeting?</p>
<p>Gordon — Well, one policeman confirmed that “this” is happening (not sure if Hugh’s reference is to the riders or the number plates), but it doesn’t seem much of a basis for such a sweeping description. Are there other available reports or statistics? Can Hugh add any detail on what was said at the LCSP meeting?</p> Some of them are. You don't h…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-11-11:844301:Comment:15157922022-11-11T19:51:18.517ZGordon Farcashttps://harringayonline.com/profile/GordonFarcas
<p>Some of them are. You don't have to believe me but if you read above you'll see that the local police have said the same.</p>
<p>Some of them are. You don't have to believe me but if you read above you'll see that the local police have said the same.</p> So you're accusing the motorc…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-11-11:844301:Comment:15159872022-11-11T19:42:36.733ZPhiliphttps://harringayonline.com/profile/PhilipFoxe
<p>So you're accusing the motorcyclists of being criminal illegal immigrants without a shred of evidence? </p>
<p>So you're accusing the motorcyclists of being criminal illegal immigrants without a shred of evidence? </p> So, by clearing out what litt…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-11-11:844301:Comment:15157872022-11-11T18:32:52.171ZDonhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/DonKeller
<p>So, by clearing out what little traffic there already was, the LTN has opened up a whole new area for speeding by remaining cars and bikes, uninhibited by other traffic? Win, win all round, then!</p>
<p>So, by clearing out what little traffic there already was, the LTN has opened up a whole new area for speeding by remaining cars and bikes, uninhibited by other traffic? Win, win all round, then!</p> We've always had fast deliver…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-11-11:844301:Comment:15158862022-11-11T17:28:27.350ZJulieBhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/JulieBartley
<p>We've always had fast delivery scooters in the evenings because, like you Don, our street is a very quiet one. It was much busier before we got CPZ, I was amazed at the difference once that was put in.<br/><br/>We also seem to have more speeding cars. Part of my road is one way now so these fast drivers seem to think they can zoom along without checking for other people. So I am having to be much more careful when I cross the road. </p>
<p>We've always had fast delivery scooters in the evenings because, like you Don, our street is a very quiet one. It was much busier before we got CPZ, I was amazed at the difference once that was put in.<br/><br/>We also seem to have more speeding cars. Part of my road is one way now so these fast drivers seem to think they can zoom along without checking for other people. So I am having to be much more careful when I cross the road. </p> Given the profusion of speedi…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-11-11:844301:Comment:15160662022-11-11T14:53:05.600Zmichaelwhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/michaelw
<p>Given the profusion of speeding motorists (with no enforcement), poor driving (with no enforcement) and illegal vehicles (e.g. motorised bikes that are essentially motorbikes), then I do wonder if there are effectively any laws for the roads these days?</p>
<p>Given the profusion of speeding motorists (with no enforcement), poor driving (with no enforcement) and illegal vehicles (e.g. motorised bikes that are essentially motorbikes), then I do wonder if there are effectively any laws for the roads these days?</p> Gordon — Well, yes, of course…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-11-11:844301:Comment:15158622022-11-11T11:31:46.883ZDonhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/DonKeller
<p>Gordon — Well, yes, of course that makes the headlines, and no doubt, as Hugh reports, the Ladder community PC is sincere in his comment (presumably based only on incidents where the police have actually intervened and found one or more riders/bikes in these categories).</p>
<p>I’m always sceptical about broad-brush generalisations about types of people, though, unless there’s evidence to substantiate them. I certainly wouldn’t know an immigration overstayer — or, indeed, fake numberplates —…</p>
<p>Gordon — Well, yes, of course that makes the headlines, and no doubt, as Hugh reports, the Ladder community PC is sincere in his comment (presumably based only on incidents where the police have actually intervened and found one or more riders/bikes in these categories).</p>
<p>I’m always sceptical about broad-brush generalisations about types of people, though, unless there’s evidence to substantiate them. I certainly wouldn’t know an immigration overstayer — or, indeed, fake numberplates — by looking at them, so I wondered if the diagnosis of who’s riding bikes and scooters through the area had been published. </p>
<p>My original point, though, was to do with the law of unintended consequences: roads such as mine in St Ann’s that were already devoid of traffic — and never needed an LTN to begin with — have been joined by newly-closed roads; together, this clears an even larger area of cars and now gives motorbikes and scooters a (literally) open road that, for some, is an invitation to speeding, because traffic isn’t there to inhibit them and it’s now much quicker to zip through the area than use West Green or St Ann’s/Harringay roads or Green Lanes. One could perhaps call it “rat-running”. I was asking if anyone else had seen this, or whether my observation was based on isolated incidents.</p>