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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Just gone through in detail the consultation associated with Low Traffic Neighbourhoods. The word Low seems to be a euphemism, no traffic neighbourhood seems to be the order of the day.

I do not understand where the council officers get their data. They state that the majority of residents do not own or use a car. So why is it so difficult to park even if you have a parking permit for the CPZ?

I have a disabled daughter and a wife with ME/Chronic fatigue and there will be no allowances for disabled access in either option. Roads are being shut to traffic, the surrounding area will be grid locked at times impacting the buses. With many of the roads having almost only one way in, how do they get deliveries and the refuse lorries in and around the area. The roads are too narrow for even a 7.5 tonne truck to turn around in. It will be difficult for cars to do three point turns.

I have lived in London since 1979, and in the borough since 1988 and in the St Ann's area since 1997. We have loved it. We raised both our children in the area and our disabled daughter (an adult now) has a support system in place.

We have asked for simple measures to make the roads safer without serious disruption to traffic flow. simple speed and weight limit enforcement would make a huge difference, but the council solution is an LTN which will drive a local garage out of business and make driving around the area almost impossible.

I am not in a minority of one, just come round the area and count the number of parked cars.

If this proposal goes through, I will have to take the early retirement I cannot afford and move away from the city I love.

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motor vehicles will not be excluded under either of the two proposals.

Hi. Surely any concerns with disability access will be dealt with by the planners. You should be able to request a disabled bay for your vehicle.

How will it drive the local garage out of business?

In our proposed LTN (Bruce Grove) all roads will maintain total accessibility by car. It will only cut off the very distruptive and constant rat running we suffer from. Yes, there will be some minor inconvenience - no longer able to access the nighbourhood from some streets - but the benefits will far outweigh these.

Emergency vehicles will still have full access through the use of filters. Schools will also have quiet streets and this should encourage more children to walk.

There are already speed limits  and humps on our roads, including Philip Lane. These are rather ineffectual since "white van man" and "small brained driver" pay no respect to them and continue to speed over and through these. When the refuse lorry and other big vehicles go over the humps the houses close by shake. So they cause more disruption than any problems they actually solve.

Hopefully more cars will just avoid the area too. I don't think this can come too soon.

Option A creates a one way street in Cranleigh Road, there is a modal filter that will cross Cranleigh road at the junction of Etherly Road. It is not clear how this will operate but if it is a residents filter, then only residents can drive down Cranleigh Road, All other customers of Cranleigh garage would not be able to leave the garage. Therefore the customer base of Cranleigh garage will disappear and they go out of business. A Car service business cannot continue if the cars cannot access the premises.

Ian, I think you are failing to understand the LTN. Every house will be accessible by vehicle. The garage will still be accessible by vehicle. Of course it will. To suggest otherwise is muddled. Mario et al support the LTN and have been consulted like everyone else.

Actually Mario and Nick never had a copy of the consultation booklet. They have heard about the public meeting where it was suggested that they relocate. I was there recently for an MOT, they are livid. They were discussing appointing solicitors to protect their business.

My discussion with a councillor suggests that there are internal discussions about Cranleigh Garage and improving their situation, but none of these discussions have appeared on paper yet.

Look at option A: the one way street and the location of the "Modal filter" at the junction of Cranleigh Road and Etherly Road.

I have no idea how this filter is intended to work and the width of the junction does pose a challenge for the way in which it is depicted on the diagram. At best it pushes all west bound traffic south down Etherly Road and then along Conway Road.

I think that people should look at the diagram in detail and decide how the situation may pan out.

Everyone that has a car in  Etherly Road is potentially forced back onto West Green Road then onto Green Lanes or Seven Sister's Road to travel south. There will be no route from Etherly Road to St Ann's Road without going along Green Lanes or Seven Sister's Road. 

This also applies to all car owners that live in the that Purple zone of the LTN.

Car Owners that live in the Woodlands Park blue  zone, will have to go onto Green Lanes or Seven Sister's Road to travel north and access West Green Road.

If the "modal Filters" are as explained in the booklet, each zone of the LTN will need to go onto Green Lanes or Seven Sister's road to reach the other side of the LTN. It effectively pens in all car owners to their section of the LTN.

Even those that do not own cars will have visitors in cars. This impacts a huge number of people.

Option B yet again pushes all the restricted traffic along Black Boy Lane and passed Chestnuts School.

As currently documented, is this really a proposal for improvement or just penning in car owners.

There are comments about the joys of living in London. I love to drive, and driving in various parts of London is part of my reason for living. Take this away and a significant part of the joy of living in London disappears. Why should I stay? After all I have only lived in this city since 1979, most of that in the Harringay, Hornsey and South end of Palmers Green areas, so that doesn't count.

I have lived with the traffic on Green Lanes from Manor House to the North Circular Road since 1982. I have frequently found that walking from Manor House to Wareham Road quicker than Public Transport, I have also found that walking from Wood Green Tube to a road just south of the North Circular quicker than Public transport. As observed earlier, I find that it can be quicker to walk from Turnpike Lane or Seven Sister's tube stations to Black Boy Lane than the bus. All this is before these Traffic measures were in place.

So is anything going to get better?

Ian, I’ve lived on Warham Road since 1984 and the traffic using my street as a way of avoiding Green Lanes has increased year on year.  Every morning the daily queue of traffic waiting to exit my road on to Wightman starts at about 6:30am and goes on until 9-9:30.  Every evening we get the same again from 3:30pm to 7:00.  Your joy is my bloody misery.

Interesting:

- Come to Black Boy Lane one day.

- Please note that 15:30 onwards is the school run until after 16:00. Harringay South School is between Pemberton and Mattison Roads, so Wareham Road could be an overspill of the School Run.

- You do not live in the proposed LTN

- Pushing Traffic onto Green Lanes will increase the use of Wightman Road and also Wareham Road for all the traffic on the South side of the LTN.

- There is a no right turn from Salisbury Road into Green Lanes so all traffic from St Ann's Road going north will go up your road.

- The increased traffic will need to turn right onto Wightman Road, so increasing the wait time at the junction with Wightman Road

- If you do not use a car, stationary traffic is not a safety issue, but an emissions' issue that wafts up from Green Lanes anyway

I’m aware that there will be knock on effects which is why measures are also planned for surrounding areas. As I said it gets worse year on year and is simply not sustainable - change has to start somewhere

You can believe that if you like.

Has it occurred to you that the increase traffic along Wareham Road may be due to the overspill following the suspension of through traffic along Hermitage Road and the Gardens. 

I lived on Wightman Road for nine years, I have lived on Black Boy Lane for well over twenty years. So I have lived in this area for over thirty years.

I have found that increased traffic has not been due solely due to traffic growth but due to the overspill of traffic as so called traffic management measures have been progressively put in place.

I also found that as soon as Wareham Road became one way, the speed of traffic vastly increased as there was no longer the need to consider the traffic coming the other way.

There is a simple fact that increase the people and the number of cars increase just as the number of people crowed onto public transport increases.

Also as working locations decentralise then the practicality of travelling by Public Transport reduces.

Remember, one person's view of heaven is another person's view of hell.

"Remember, one person's view of heaven is another person's view of hell."

Remember, one's person's view of heaven might be another person's view of hell, or it might not...

Michael — You eloquently make exactly the point I’ve tried to make. When Wightman was closed, Green Lanes was a total nightmare — Ladder joy, everyone else’s misery. When the Crouch End closures were trialled/proposed, even the council’s projections showed the diverted traffic pouring into Wightman — Crouch End joy, your (and everyone on the Ladder’s) misery. Closing roads in St Ann’s — (minimal) joy in already-empty Clarendon or Avondale Roads, misery in St Ann’s and West Green Roads and Green Lanes (again). Unless and until the council and TfL get to grips with the real Harringay problems — Green Lanes and entry/exit to the North Circular, plus public transport improvements — piecemeal road closures simply displace the misery to new roads or increase it in existing ones. St Ann’s closures can only mean things will get worse for Warham as yet more traffic seeks to avoid the GL problem and has even fewer ways to do so.

Couldn't agree more Don. 

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