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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Just gone through in detail the consultation associated with Low Traffic Neighbourhoods. The word Low seems to be a euphemism, no traffic neighbourhood seems to be the order of the day.

I do not understand where the council officers get their data. They state that the majority of residents do not own or use a car. So why is it so difficult to park even if you have a parking permit for the CPZ?

I have a disabled daughter and a wife with ME/Chronic fatigue and there will be no allowances for disabled access in either option. Roads are being shut to traffic, the surrounding area will be grid locked at times impacting the buses. With many of the roads having almost only one way in, how do they get deliveries and the refuse lorries in and around the area. The roads are too narrow for even a 7.5 tonne truck to turn around in. It will be difficult for cars to do three point turns.

I have lived in London since 1979, and in the borough since 1988 and in the St Ann's area since 1997. We have loved it. We raised both our children in the area and our disabled daughter (an adult now) has a support system in place.

We have asked for simple measures to make the roads safer without serious disruption to traffic flow. simple speed and weight limit enforcement would make a huge difference, but the council solution is an LTN which will drive a local garage out of business and make driving around the area almost impossible.

I am not in a minority of one, just come round the area and count the number of parked cars.

If this proposal goes through, I will have to take the early retirement I cannot afford and move away from the city I love.

Tags for Forum Posts: low traffic neighbourhoods, st anns ltn, traffic

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Andrew, I don’t know where you live, but I’m close to these roads and certainly never see “thousands” of cars cutting through Conway or Cranleigh roads. At almost any time of day, you could walk down the middle of Conway, if you wish, with little chance of even seeing a moving car, let alone being endangered by one. As I said earlier in the thread, because they’re so traffic-free these roads — which I use at a range of times, weekdays and weekends — are already my preferred walking route to avoid the bounday road, St Ann’s, which will only get far busier under either traffic-blocking scheme.

In the Council’s literature, there are many assertions about rat-running and through traffic, but a total dearth of figures for the actual number of vehicles on the already very quiet side roads. The crash map referenced above also shows conclusively that far and away the greatest number of accidents happen on Green Lanes and West Green Road, not in the network of smaller roads in the ward. However, the consultation leaflets are worded to suggest that the level of through traffic is as great a problem in St Ann’s as it is on the Ladder, which is nothing like the case. This scheme is aiming at the wrong target: sorting out Green Lanes, improving public transport and enabling electric vehicles with charging points would be a far better use of time and public money.

I also live nearby. I'm not suggesting that there are thousands of cars cutting through (although I can see why it might read like that, I meant thousands of cars on Black Boy Lane), I was saying that the number of cars in the area would still decrease, even if some are being re-routed.

It was Ian Jackson-Reeves implying that those roads would suddenly become very busy, even hellish.

I'd agree that those roads are pretty quiet. The trouble is that if you put filters in the middle of Black Boy Lane and Woodlands Park Rd those surroundings streets would quickly become busy with all that through traffic, that's why I think they need to be filtered too. At its peak Black Boy Lane has a car going past 5 seconds, it really needs sorting.

The ladder, and particularly Wightman, needs sorting too (I lived there for many years) but, in my view, if these current schemes are voted down the council's appetite to do anything about it will be minimal. Haringey residents have to show the council there is desire for such schemes.

Green Lanes certainly needs improving, longer hours for the bus lanes, cycle lanes and cutting down on parking would be my first suggestions. I can't say I'm too fussed about electric vehicles, loads of electric cars may be a slight improvement over loads of internal combustion engined cars but it's still loads of cars.

Electric vehicle charging points aren't going to cut congestion or improve safety

I could not agree with Andrew and Sarah more. My feeling is the fundamental reason for an LTN is to encourage people to walk and cycle more, and be/feel safe doing so. We can all benefit from that. There needs to be a change of mindset where people acknowledge that our streets should be a space for ‘people’ not a hazardous, frightening polluted mess dominated by cars. There is a fundamental design flaw in the current status quo. Think also, there might be an issue of climate change/pollution that we need to address. Where do we start? We need to start somewhere. Business as usual and electric cars is not going to solve the essence of this problem which is there are just too many cars on the road. As the streets become more pleasant, people who can, will choose to walk and/or cycle and the congestion will dissipate over time. It works really well and has transformed other boroughs. Why can’t we have it here? 

"Think global, act local" is something I think was drummed into me as a small child. And we really do need to act.

Karen - “too many cars on the road” may be true, but it’s partly a response to the alternatives. I grew up in London in a household without a car and have never driven myself, so have always relied on public transport. I spent 20 years commuting from Harringay to Waterloo and, by the time I progressed to working from home, was heartily sick of the delays, inconsistency, overcrowding and occasionally scary aspects of using bus and tube, never knowing for sure when I’d arrive. Based now at home, I walk locally and obviously still use public transport, but there’s a limit to my tolerance for waiting on a cold, wet night for a bus to start the journey back here from, say, Camberwell, or trying to get heavy recycling to a dump inaccessible by public transport. My point throughout this thread has been that LTNs and other restrictions are all stick and no carrot: improvements to public transport (eg 24-hour bus lanes in Green Lanes) need to precede traffic-blocking, not follow years later, if at all. In contrast, since before the pandemic TfL has been systematically truncating or completely cutting many central bus routes and reducing service frequencies, making it harder to get around, involving more changes and lengthening journey times; is it any wonder people resort to cars instead?

Ian, ware on earth is Wareham Road?

Pardon my spelling, it is Warham Road on the ladder. There is no right turn from Salisbury Road into Green Lanes, this is a throw back to the old pedestrian crossing arrangements that are now obsolete as there is dedicated crossing time for all roads at that junction.

Traffic wanting to go north from the south west side of the ST Ann's would need to travel along Salisbury Road and Warham Road to turn right at Wightman Road. Or they need to go along Harringay Road onto Green Lanes. Either way there would be an increase of Traffic along Warham Road and Harringay Road.

One person's loss is another person's gain.

Please note that there are existing, but unenforced laws for Black Boy Lane. There is a 7.5 ton unladden weight limit and a 20MPH speed limit. Both are flouted, the speed limit even by the buses.

These problems cause physical damage to the houses in Black Boy Lane as the bumps in the road cause a travelling wave through the houses. These are also major safety hazards in the area.

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