Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Repeating noise nuisance from Ora Cafe at 581 Green Lanes
Hi All,
Apologies if I am wasting your time.
I have been meaning to ask for input from members of other forums on this for a while. I live 2 doors down from the premises in an otherwise completely residential area and the smoke and noise are really get me, my partner and my neighbours down. We'd like to know what options are available to us to try and tackle this as Haringey Council hasn't even responded to our enquiry yet. That was submitted two weeks ago.
The noise issues include:
- loud general hub-bub due to windows & doors being open front & back
- loud, raucous noise from the very strange structure of the premises. I really don't know how they managed get this premises licensed.
- loud, raucous noise from the smokers on the front pavement area
- incredibly foul language consitently from both outdoor areas
- loud 'live mike' / dj parties held frequently all the above being louder than our tv/music in our homes
- all of the above going on until very late at least five days a week. (beyond usual closing time)
The smoke issue is that now they leave the shutters open (which happened just in time for the smoking ban) AND out on the front pavement, it's impossible to have windows open front or back without ending up with quite a smoky house.
To date my own action has been limited to a polite phone call once it's gone past 02:00am, to request that they turn the music down and ask people outdoors to speak more quietly. The response is usually not very pleasing as at the end of the day, you are actually dealing with drunk people. The owners are not do-operating either.
What concerns me just as much is that when I call I always withold my number, and I never go near the premises on weekends, because the general level of tolerance from the drinkers towards non-customers is incredibly low and they make life a misery if they see you. I don't feel confident enough to go in in person and discuss this with the landlord, even in the day time. I worry that I will make myself a target, and living so close they could make life even less pleasant.
So, to my questions - how much of all this is "tough luck" and what things do we stand any chance of changing / are considered unacceptable practice in a residential area? How do we check on their licence arrangements, and their closing times etc?
PS; I have never seen an enforcement officer visiting the premises and I am not sure how they manage to inspect the premises to make sure they actually comply with their licence requirements.
Thank you
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by maggie on
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They have been involved with disputes before and Ian Sygrave supported a complaint on behalf of a local to the council so I would get in touch with him through the Ladder Community Safety Partnership (lcsp) lcsp@blueyonder.co.uk
see http://www.harringayonline.com/forum/topics/cafe-ora-on-green-lanes...
In the above council minutes they undertake that the 'outside area' not be used after 11 pm. ( so document any breeches by keeping a diary, taking photos if possible, at a safe distance ). It also states that a door supervisor should ensure that patrons leave in a courtous manner respecting neighbours, (again document when they don't comply).
It also states that a "direct telephone number for the premises is to be made available to local residnts so that they can contact the premiss in the event of any concerns regarding noise and public nuisance" !!!
and I would also contact local councillors.
The Ora website states that they are open 7 nights a week 2.pm untill 12:00midnight, so I would keep a diary of everytime they are open late or make a disturbance etc.
http://www.oracafegreenlanes.co.uk/restaurant/oracafegreenlanes/con...
They have 'previous' for failing to uphold licensing conditions
http://www.harringayonline.com/forum/topics/cafe-ora-on-green-lanes...
In the meantime I would start ringing Noise Enforcement if it is noisy after 11 pm. They can give more information and may send someone out, however it is very useful to phone them to log the noise with them every night it is noisy so that if it goes to the council they have a record of it.
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/environment-and-waste/noise-and-animal-c...
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Permalink Reply by Zena Brabazon on
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Hi Adeline
Can I suggest the first step you take is to contact Haringey's licensing officer who will advise you. The Licensing Officer is Daliah Barrett-daliah.barrett@haringey.gov.uk
I will also contact her to discuss what is going on and what action can be taken. I have some experience in this and I was impressed by the active involvement and engagement of the Licensing team in tackling problems with licensed premises. My email is: zena.brabazon@haringey.gov.uk so please don't hesitate to contact me. As I will be getting hold of Daliah on Monday email me so I have your contact details and can let you know next steps.
As Maggie says it is vital to keep a diary/record of the activities/problems. Calling the noise officer is essential as they can witness what is happening, so if the Ora does not comply with its license , a review of their license can be instigated by the Noise Team.
All the best
Zena
Zena Brabazon
Councillor, Harringay Ward
zena.brabazon@haringey.gov.uk
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I would suggest also contacting Catherine West MP. She won't be able to do a lot other than chase the council but I promise you a letter from the MP arriving will get dealt with quicker.
It seems all you need to improve the situation is for them to abide by their licensing agreement so pressure the council directly and via the MP for them to do their job.
Good luck
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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She'll probably refer Adeline to her MP, David Lammy.
Zena's a hard working councillor, Adeline. See what she can turn up for you. She'll probably get more results than Lammy.
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Permalink Reply by Adeline on
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Dear All,
Thank you for all your assistance. We'll be contacting Zena with providing some images and video records first thing in the morning. To be honest, I'm feeling really quite surprised and very satisfied by the amount of support you provided.
Thank you,
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Hi Adeline
Just to say this is not an MP issue. This is definitely a local authority matter. David Lammy will refer it back. I know he takes his casework really seriously, and would do that, but the licensing process is the local authority's responsibility to that's where our efforts should be concentrated.
I checked out the Cafe Ora last night so have the location completely clear.
Zena
Zena Brabazon
Cllr, Harringay Ward
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Could you say which department of the council you contacted, and whether you had any acknowledgement...
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I'm sorry to have only just seen the various responses you had, so my question may have been answered.
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Permalink Reply by krz on
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Hi, this is an old discussion but I am having very similar situation as Adeline had, in the last few years as well as now, I have been getting the noise and smell nuisance from a cafe in Bounds Green. The council has not helpful. In 2020, Could anyone advise me what to do with the noise and vibration nuisance from the cafe? At the moment constant cooling fan noises and vibrations spreading to 70 percent of my house...Once they are open fully, it will get worse as before...I think an old style cooling fan is not recommended in a cafe where there is no window as even hospital wards forbid it for infection control.
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Permalink Reply by Bob Ruggles on
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Check out the Environment Protection Act
Which the Local Authority is Forced to Act on . They can Not refuse to use the Act
If you research the Act there is a way of reporting Council if they are Not Enforcing the Act
Well aware as a Retired Enforcement Officer . That the Council / Councillors did not like the Act as it stops them from closing issues down
Also worth posting on Councils Facebook page. As someone has to give a Official Reply
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Permalink Reply by Lottie Rodgers on
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Hi all,
I realise this is an old post, but wondering if anyone had any insight for me.
My partner and I are thinking of buying a property on Beresford Road, and it looks like it could back onto where Ora Shisha Bar/Lounge is, or at least is quite near to where the bar is.
Would this be very loud? Would we be able to hear the noise from our garden/ back bedroom or kitchen?
Thanks for your help!
Lottie
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