Raleigh Rd now used by Haringey Council HGVs. - Harringay online2024-03-28T11:43:33Zhttps://harringayonline.com/forum/topics/raleigh-rd-now-used-by?feed=yes&xn_auth=noWow! Nice one Councillor Adam…tag:harringayonline.com,2011-07-28:844301:Comment:2698642011-07-28T20:08:16.809ZJohn McMullanhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/bogan72
<p>Wow! Nice one Councillor Adamou.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>So they don't want to do a deal with residents with regard to through rights? That makes the £5 million spent on Mary Neuner way a bit of a waste. Coming from Westbury Ave or West Green Road they will have to go right up to Wood Green to get to their depot. I am sure residents would be amenable to Veolia and other council over weight trucks being given through rights providing they went slowly (and the 22 tonners make no noise at all if they…</p>
<p>Wow! Nice one Councillor Adamou.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>So they don't want to do a deal with residents with regard to through rights? That makes the £5 million spent on Mary Neuner way a bit of a waste. Coming from Westbury Ave or West Green Road they will have to go right up to Wood Green to get to their depot. I am sure residents would be amenable to Veolia and other council over weight trucks being given through rights providing they went slowly (and the 22 tonners make no noise at all if they go slowly) and enforced the limit for others...</p> Dear Councillor Adamou,
Than…tag:harringayonline.com,2011-07-28:844301:Comment:2699432011-07-28T12:24:26.413ZGina Adamouhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/GinaAdamou
<p><font color="black" face="HelveticaNeueLT Std" size="3">Dear Councillor Adamou,</font></p>
<p><font color="black" face="HelveticaNeueLT Std" size="3"> </font><span style="font-family: 'HelveticaNeueLT Std'; font-size: medium;">Thank you for your email.</span></p>
<p><font color="black" face="HelveticaNeueLT Std" size="3"> </font></p>
<p><font color="black" face="HelveticaNeueLT Std" size="3">Veolia Environmental Services uses vehicles in excess of 20 tonnes on all ladder roads to collect…</font></p>
<p><font face="HelveticaNeueLT Std" color="black" size="3">Dear Councillor Adamou,</font></p>
<p><font face="HelveticaNeueLT Std" color="black" size="3"> </font><span style="font-family: 'HelveticaNeueLT Std'; font-size: medium;">Thank you for your email.</span></p>
<p><font face="HelveticaNeueLT Std" color="black" size="3"> </font></p>
<p><font face="HelveticaNeueLT Std" color="black" size="3">Veolia Environmental Services uses vehicles in excess of 20 tonnes on all ladder roads to collect refuse and recycling. Provided these vehicles only use the ladder roads when they are collecting refuse and recycling then they are complying with the vehicle restrictions in place, i.e. vehicles over 7.5 tonnes can drive into the road if it is to make a delivery or collection. .</font></p>
<p><font face="HelveticaNeueLT Std" color="black" size="3"> </font></p>
<p><font face="HelveticaNeueLT Std" color="black" size="3">In order to ensure that refuse and recycling collection vehicles do not use ladder roads for access purposes, drivers have been issued with instructions to this effect. Should any Veolia Light Goods Vehicle driver be found driving through ladder roads for access purposes they will be subject to disciplinary action. They could also face action from the Traffic Police for failure to observe the road signs.</font></p>
<p><font face="HelveticaNeueLT Std" color="black" size="3"> </font></p>
<p><font face="HelveticaNeueLT Std" color="black" size="3">Following the decriminalisation of a number of restrictions placed along the public highway, the enforcement of these restrictions which includes 7.5 tonne weight limits, now comes under the responsibility of local authorities. Although the enforcement of most of the restrictions, such as banned turns, one way, no entry etc are straightforward, the enforcement of weight restrictions are more problematic. Our enforcement team are however committed to enforcing all restrictions under their remit. With this in mind we will arrange for a review of the existing signage along the ladder roads to ensure they are compliant prior to trialling enforcement through the use of mobile units.</font></p>
<p><font face="HelveticaNeueLT Std" color="black" size="3"> </font></p>
<p><font face="HelveticaNeueLT Std" color="black" size="3">I trust that I have satisfactorily addressed your enquiry.</font></p>
<p><font face="HelveticaNeueLT Std" size="3">If you have any questions, please contact me on 0208 489 1335 or email me at <a title="mailto:environment.members@haringey.gov.uk" href="mailto:environment.members@haringey.gov.uk">environment.members@haringey.gov.uk</a></font></p>
<div><p><strong><b><font face="HelveticaNeueLT Std" color="black" size="3"> </font></b></strong></p>
</div> Sorry, no. I work at the bac…tag:harringayonline.com,2011-07-15:844301:Comment:2646512011-07-15T22:22:27.325ZWispyhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/Wispy
Sorry, no. I work at the back of the house. By the time I get to the front, the house has been shaken and the rogue vehicle has disappeared down the road! Are there any more Raleigh Roaders out there who can help with this? Thanks.
Sorry, no. I work at the back of the house. By the time I get to the front, the house has been shaken and the rogue vehicle has disappeared down the road! Are there any more Raleigh Roaders out there who can help with this? Thanks. Any registration numbers for…tag:harringayonline.com,2011-07-15:844301:Comment:2647432011-07-15T22:09:07.853ZJohn McMullanhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/bogan72
Any registration numbers for me?
Any registration numbers for me? JohnD, you write: "I don't wa…tag:harringayonline.com,2011-07-12:844301:Comment:2636692011-07-12T23:37:38.485ZAlan Stantonhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/AlanStanton
<p>JohnD, you write: "I don't want to see anyone fined: I don't believe that taking money off people is the best way to change their behaviour". A very interesting viewpoint. And for drivers of commercial vehicles I suspect it may be true - as long as their firms see the fine as <em>yet another business expense</em>.</p>
<p>And it could have the opposite consequence to that intended: being treated as a payment which legitimates their rule breaking. You may have seen…</p>
<p>JohnD, you write: "I don't want to see anyone fined: I don't believe that taking money off people is the best way to change their behaviour". A very interesting viewpoint. And for drivers of commercial vehicles I suspect it may be true - as long as their firms see the fine as <em>yet another business expense</em>.</p>
<p>And it could have the opposite consequence to that intended: being treated as a payment which legitimates their rule breaking. You may have seen <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/15/books/chapters/0515-1st-levitt.html" target="_blank">the article called Freakonomics</a> about an Israeli Day Care Centre where parents were fined when they were late to pick up their kids.</p>
<p>So I'm curious. How would you propose changing behaviour? Keeping bus lanes clear, for example? Or another method of getting drivers to observe the congestion charge area?</p>
<p>I entirely agree with you about the Council ignoring missing signs. At minimum, whoever reported the missing sign should have had a courteous and helpful reply. Perhaps explaining why the sign was no longer needed. (Here I'm assuming David Schmitz is correct. Though I haven't checked the legal position myself.)</p> Both the driver AND the firm…tag:harringayonline.com,2011-07-12:844301:Comment:2629212011-07-12T17:06:00.067ZJohn McMullanhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/bogan72
<p>Both the driver AND the firm can be fined up to £1000. In this case I think they may have to pay because the infringement began at Willoughby road's intersection with Green Lanes which is still clearly signposted (Thank you David Schmitz).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Alan a bigger question for me in all of this is, the council spent five million pounds building Mary Neuner way, primarily in the short term to allow their large recycling HGVs and OnTime's vehicle recovery trucks access to their depots…</p>
<p>Both the driver AND the firm can be fined up to £1000. In this case I think they may have to pay because the infringement began at Willoughby road's intersection with Green Lanes which is still clearly signposted (Thank you David Schmitz).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Alan a bigger question for me in all of this is, the council spent five million pounds building Mary Neuner way, primarily in the short term to allow their large recycling HGVs and OnTime's vehicle recovery trucks access to their depots from south of Wood Green. The only legal way they can use this road is if they're coming under the Turnpike Lane tunnel heading east. The cannot turn right from Turnpike Lane and they should not be using Wightman Rd for access. I feel like I am pushing custard up hill. Once I have council HGVs out of Raleigh road they will start using Falkland, they almost have to (and I'm playing whack-a-mole too).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I emailed Nilgun Canver on the 25th of September last year asking if we could do a deal, someone enforces the limit and residents allow council subcontractors to quietly and fairly utilise our roads because it is a ridiculous waste forcing them to go up to Wood Green. I received no reply.</p> OK, I really would like you t…tag:harringayonline.com,2011-07-12:844301:Comment:2629182011-07-12T16:39:26.007ZJohn McMullanhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/bogan72
<p>OK, I really would like you to collect registration numbers, time and date of visit and if you can, livery details (i.e. is it the council, O'Donovan's etc). I presume that you can hear them from the first road hump...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I am happy to chase the companies, I feel a bit guilty that I may have just moved my problem onto your road.</p>
<p>OK, I really would like you to collect registration numbers, time and date of visit and if you can, livery details (i.e. is it the council, O'Donovan's etc). I presume that you can hear them from the first road hump...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I am happy to chase the companies, I feel a bit guilty that I may have just moved my problem onto your road.</p> I live on Raleigh Road and wo…tag:harringayonline.com,2011-07-12:844301:Comment:2634492011-07-12T10:11:11.924ZWispyhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/Wispy
I live on Raleigh Road and work from home. At least once an hour, every day, the whole house shakes as yet another HGV uses the road: I'll support any action to stop them!
I live on Raleigh Road and work from home. At least once an hour, every day, the whole house shakes as yet another HGV uses the road: I'll support any action to stop them! @ Alan
I don't want to see an…tag:harringayonline.com,2011-07-12:844301:Comment:2628992011-07-12T06:02:26.295ZJohn Dhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/JohnD
<p>@ Alan</p>
<p>I don't want to see anyone fined: I don't believe that taking money off people is the best way to change their behaviour. I would be happy if they would just stop using these roads.</p>
<p>As John McM says - the missing Hampden Road sign was reported to the council several years ago and nothing was done. <strong>That's</strong> what fosters cynicism and distrust. Actually, the missing Hampden Road sign is now irrelevant - to access Hampden you have to be on Wightman which IS…</p>
<p>@ Alan</p>
<p>I don't want to see anyone fined: I don't believe that taking money off people is the best way to change their behaviour. I would be happy if they would just stop using these roads.</p>
<p>As John McM says - the missing Hampden Road sign was reported to the council several years ago and nothing was done. <strong>That's</strong> what fosters cynicism and distrust. Actually, the missing Hampden Road sign is now irrelevant - to access Hampden you have to be on Wightman which IS signposted as a 7.5T limit.</p>
<p> </p> John D, I'm sure many people…tag:harringayonline.com,2011-07-12:844301:Comment:2632442011-07-12T00:23:58.275ZAlan Stantonhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/AlanStanton
<p>John D, I'm sure many people share your view that a driver who "knows" - or ought to have known - is still morally obliged to obey the rules. Perhaps you also think he/she should pay up if fined - even if there's a technical legal loophole?</p>
<p>However, I see another moral dimension: in the implicit "mutual agreement" between residents and their elected councils. I think people are entitled to expect and trust local councils to install legally correct lines and signs. They are entitled…</p>
<p>John D, I'm sure many people share your view that a driver who "knows" - or ought to have known - is still morally obliged to obey the rules. Perhaps you also think he/she should pay up if fined - even if there's a technical legal loophole?</p>
<p>However, I see another moral dimension: in the implicit "mutual agreement" between residents and their elected councils. I think people are entitled to expect and trust local councils to install legally correct lines and signs. They are entitled to expect and have confidence that when a local council enforces the restrictions, it will follow the legal rules.</p>
<p>If it doesn't, then a local council is acting as if it's above the law. Which fosters cynicism and distrust among residents.</p>
<p>If a traffic sign is broken or missing it should be reported and repaired/replaced. If any sign or road marking is legally required to issue a fine then: no sign or line = no fine.</p>