Harringay online

Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

'The current state of TfL’s finances, with no clear plan of how to fund it in the future, threatens to result in a very different London public transport system that elsewhere in the country would be wise to avoid.

'Unless solutions can be found to the current crisis, TfL could face deep budget cuts and a halting of investment, the result being a deteriorating service for Londoners. At this rate, not even London will have a ‘London-style’ transport system.'

Read the rest of this blog post about the dangers facing our transport system on the Centre for London's website.

Tags for Forum Posts: public transport, tfl

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Urm no, my comment is about them wasting money through paying their staff above the market rate (for London) and having gold plated final salary pensions, early retirement, and benefits that 99% of Londoners don't have access to, including over 70 days holiday if you count working compressed hours.

That's not even starting with artwork commissioning that's costs £millions, or overpaying on contracts with outsourcing companies that cost % more than the usual market rate.

Look I love TFL, it's better than most public transport around the world, but the financial difficulties they find themselves in after COVID is nothing to do with Boris or the government, it's pissing away money whilst the sun was shining - I mean they're still doing a massive hiring drive rn when pretty much all of the rest of private industry and government has a hiring freeze.

That's not even getting

Hi CC, 

Personally I think that just shows how well Bob Crow represented his union members. 
love or hate the bloke (and I have done in equal measure) you can’t deny he looked after the best interests and working conditions of the unions membership. 

There is a difference between union officials who work with members and employers to agree fair and sustainable remuneration packages and those who extort the public purse. Crowe fell into the later category. Personally I found the man galling. Refusing to give up a council house when earning a very good wage summed it up for me.

His legacy lives on. Annually, alnost without fail his cronies threaten to ruin Christmas in exchange for ever more generous concessions. 

CC, I’ll jump to your bating….

So you are saying that your acquaintances at TFL "suffer" from good conditions at work?

Or do you mean that TFL provides a good remuneration and flexible working package and that these should be downgraded so that TFL would be subject to high staff turnover and all the recruitment problems that you get when this happens. Have you followed that, post Brexshit, the hotel and catering industry is now finding out that such practices are prejudicial to finding and holding on to employees and is bad for business? You will have read also that part of the reason for the shortage of HGV drivers is that the working people aren't happy to settle for the working conditions.

Also what a lovely example of "levelling up" i.e degrade good working conditions for employees that still have them. Destroy their good pension arrangements, increase their working hours, etc….

We need to remind voters that it is the Tory Party - and not some “external power” - that has been in power since …..2010!

The Tories cut core service provision - by starving poorer councils of social service funding, cutting police numbers in Greater London and they gave below inflation pay rises to public servants, including the NHS, cutting their salaries/wages in real terms. They at the same time increased the salaries of MPS.

Now they claim to be increasing financial provision and services (levelling up) THAT THEY HELPED WEAKEN! Just how cynical can one get?

PS * Extract of conclusions from report quoted in one of above links...

"Looking across ten areas of social policy on the eve of the COVID-19 pandemic, there was mounting evidence of a slowdown in social progress and a widening of deep structural inequalities across multiple dimensions of life."

None of that has anything to do with TFL.

What I'm saying is there is massive wastage and TFL are getting on their high horse about not havib any money they should realise most of that is their fault, including a massive Pension deficit because they didn't run with the times like everyone else in society - i.e why should tax payers in the rest of the UK have to fund early retirement and final salary pensions schemes when you or I (or anyone else in the rest of Europe if you want to go there) have access to those schemes.

£603m is the TFL pension scheme deficit.

£900m was the operating deficit in 2018.

None of this is new.

They are not illegal immigrants. They are refugees struggling to survive. Our government has deliberately ensured there is no other way to seek asylum. Many of the refugees exist because of our foreign policy of bombing other countries. This is the kind of casual racism that our government uses to avoid responsibility for its wholesale disastrous policies...

Not sure where that came from. But if you're referring to the people illegally crossing the channel then they are the very definition of illegal migrants. If they were refugees they would seek to have their status recognised in the first safe country they got to which would generally be Greece, Turkey, Belarus, or failing that, in any of the handful of other safe countries they subsequently travel through to get to France which is also a very safe country. The fact that the vast majority of them are fit young men who've travelled through all those safe countries reveals the fact that they are economic migrants seeking to enter our country illegally for financial gain.

Now I'm very keen to welcome genuine refugees and think the UK should take its fair share along with other wealthy countries but we're not here to fund the world. But each of these illegal economic migrants cost the taxpayer money even if only to house and then deport them. There are hundreds coming across the channel every day with France's connivance. If we weren't paying for all that and the legacy cost of those already here we might have more money to upgrade our transport infrastructure (which, Philip, is the subject of this thread).

Brian, I think engaging with the kind of arguments you present demeans us all. Fortunately, some more generous souls have taken the time to help those peddling them.

Please read




Or go through all the questions. 


Thanks Will. You're right that there are scenarios where it's impractical for people to claim refugee status in the first safe country they arrive in but there are still a number of safe countries between say Greece and Turkey and here (eg. Albania, Bulgaria, Italy, Czechia, Slovenia, Germany, Belgium, France, Spain). The fact that the UK is more attractive does not mean we have to accept everyone who wants to come here. We're already quite full, our services are stretched and our precious green space is at risk in order to house everyone. As mentioned, I'm happy to take our fair share but not those who arrive here illegally. 

This is the proportion of the total population who refugees in countries of the world. We need a sense of proportion about what is happening in the U.K.

This is a bit silly to post - Lebanon is a completely failed state, Turkey is a quasi dictatorship, Jordan gives zero legal rights to Palestinian refugees Nauru takes Australian refugees for cash and Liberia/Uganda aren't that nice (principally to minorities like homosexuals).

If you want to play stats, 60% of Londoners are non white British or have an immigration background.

 Bit disengenuos for anyone to say we're not tolerant or open.

Have we not all strayed off piste a bit ?

This thread is about the demise of transport in London.

What if we just didn't give that £40billiion a year to prop up the rest of the country?? Just imagine what we could do with the money !! TFL, NHS, and a social housing boom!! 

Anyone up for that?? I'll work out some weekly figures post them later. 



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