Council needs to get its priorities right; Child 'C' - Harringay online2024-03-29T10:15:53Zhttps://harringayonline.com/forum/topics/council-needs-to-get-its?commentId=844301%3AComment%3A80927&feed=yes&xn_auth=noTHE Guardian reported a week…tag:harringayonline.com,2009-02-08:844301:Comment:910022009-02-08T20:20:09.726ZClive Carterhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/CliveCarter
<i>THE Guardian</i> <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/feb/02/haringey-council-pr-adviser-baby-p-case">reported</a> a week ago, that Haringey <b>refuses to name PR adviser that gave training on Baby P case</b>.<br />
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Revealing this information <i>"would damage the commercial reputation"</i> of the company involved.<br />
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Did this involve the spending of public funds?
<i>THE Guardian</i> <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/feb/02/haringey-council-pr-adviser-baby-p-case">reported</a> a week ago, that Haringey <b>refuses to name PR adviser that gave training on Baby P case</b>.<br />
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Revealing this information <i>"would damage the commercial reputation"</i> of the company involved.<br />
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Did this involve the spending of public funds? Clive
I hesitate to respond…tag:harringayonline.com,2008-12-12:844301:Comment:809992008-12-12T21:03:31.227ZDavidJhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/David
Clive<br />
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I hesitate to respond to this because it does feel that you simply have political points to score here, so I doubt you are really interested in debate.<br />
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However, have you considered why organisations pay money for PR? Might it be to do with the fact that they are trying to counteract some of the media forces that they feel are ranged against them - that they feel do serious harm? One of the many challenges that social services have faced is the difficulty in recruiting social workers…
Clive<br />
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I hesitate to respond to this because it does feel that you simply have political points to score here, so I doubt you are really interested in debate.<br />
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However, have you considered why organisations pay money for PR? Might it be to do with the fact that they are trying to counteract some of the media forces that they feel are ranged against them - that they feel do serious harm? One of the many challenges that social services have faced is the difficulty in recruiting social workers since Climbie. I actually think it would have been a dereliction of duty not to have thought about trying to avert some of the further damage that was likely to occur.<br />
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I choose to live in Harringay, my kids go to Haringey schools. I am rather proud of Haringey and I am sick of the place being run down by the 'popular' press who do not in reality give a flip for us or our children. It is very, very disheartening to read the same stuff being peddled on here, a space for Harringay. Who are the Taxpayers Allianc…tag:harringayonline.com,2008-12-12:844301:Comment:809792008-12-12T16:51:50.171ZJoehttps://harringayonline.com/xn/detail/u_3jzwnrm4owvd2
Who are the Taxpayers Alliance? I'm a tax payer and am not allied to anyone.
Who are the Taxpayers Alliance? I'm a tax payer and am not allied to anyone. .
It's good to have a health…tag:harringayonline.com,2008-12-12:844301:Comment:809482008-12-12T14:06:38.754ZClive Carterhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/CliveCarter
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It's good to have a healthy skepticism about newspapers, but without a free press we would have a situation as obtained in the USSR, where one had to depend on Pravda and Isvestia. <i>Haringey People</i> seems to me to be closer to <i>Pravda</i> than to <i>The Guardian.</i><br />
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<b>What did the £19,000 wasted on PR buy?<br />
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Among the coaching and role-playing facilities offered, Santry and Shoesmith are likely to have had the following media-handling tips:<br />
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<i>Speak slowly<br />
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Look the reporter…</i>
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It's good to have a healthy skepticism about newspapers, but without a free press we would have a situation as obtained in the USSR, where one had to depend on Pravda and Isvestia. <i>Haringey People</i> seems to me to be closer to <i>Pravda</i> than to <i>The Guardian.</i><br />
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<b>What did the £19,000 wasted on PR buy?<br />
</b><br />
Among the coaching and role-playing facilities offered, Santry and Shoesmith are likely to have had the following media-handling tips:<br />
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<i>Speak slowly<br />
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Look the reporter in the eyes<br />
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Use and repeat the name of the reporter<br />
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Repeat the central message that you're trying to put over<br />
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Stay on-message<br />
</i><br />
The trouble is, these techniques are likely to be spotted a mile off by an experienced journalist and probably are not endearing. Sincerity that is faked may be counter-productive. If Santry and Shoesmith had resigned promptly, the media storm might not have gathered pace and the media training would have been even less necessary.<br />
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As it happened, if Shoesmith in particular was ever 'on-message', then she seemed to have gone <i>off</i> message. Even the PR industry wasn't impressed with the lessons Haringey were supposed to have learnt <a href="http://www.prweek.com/uk/search/article/863763/Haringey-comms-team-fire/">PR Week</a> (similar story in <a href="http://www.brandrepublic.com/News/863763/Haringey-comms-team-fire/%3Ca%20href=">www.prweek.co.uk</a>">Brand Republic).<br />
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How remote all this is from the torture and killing of a baby on the At Risk Register. I have a residual unwillingne…tag:harringayonline.com,2008-12-12:844301:Comment:809272008-12-12T11:11:17.814ZLee Andrewshttps://harringayonline.com/profile/misteroy
I have a residual unwillingness to believe all the hype and fluff in newspapers!
I have a residual unwillingness to believe all the hype and fluff in newspapers! Lee, the story is not bollock…tag:harringayonline.com,2008-12-12:844301:Comment:809242008-12-12T10:58:37.717ZClive Carterhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/CliveCarter
Lee, the story is not bollocks at all. Do I detect a residual unwillingness to believe the story?! I'm pleased you agree that, if the story is true, then it was a waste of cash.<br />
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If the story <i>had</i> been "bollocks" as you put it, then the council would have disputed it, as they are ready, willing and able to: it has a <a href="http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/news_and_events/setting_the_record_straight.htm">web page</a> dedicated to disputing news stories with which it disagrees.<br />
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Which is…
Lee, the story is not bollocks at all. Do I detect a residual unwillingness to believe the story?! I'm pleased you agree that, if the story is true, then it was a waste of cash.<br />
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If the story <i>had</i> been "bollocks" as you put it, then the council would have disputed it, as they are ready, willing and able to: it has a <a href="http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/news_and_events/setting_the_record_straight.htm">web page</a> dedicated to disputing news stories with which it disagrees.<br />
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Which is hardly likely, because, in response to a formal question on the subject, the figure of <b>£19,000</b> was supplied by the council itself!<br />
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Haringey is far from being the only council that wastes large amounts of public funds on PR. Today's SUN newspaper carries a <a href="http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2030021.ece">report</a> about the UK's council's spending a total of <b>£430m on PR.</b> The SUN's story is based on this <a href="http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/waste/">research</a>.<br />
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It is not difficult to see that, given this background, the council and its supporters regard large amounts spent on PR as perfectly normal and are perplexed when others see this expenditure as wasteful. The absurd and self-congratulatory <i>Haringey People</i> magazine is part of this waste and the <a href="http://www.gcawards.co.uk/">awards</a> that councils give each other, in the council bubble, reinforces the sense of normality of the PR spend. Fair enough, it's not complet…tag:harringayonline.com,2008-12-12:844301:Comment:809132008-12-12T10:29:20.735ZLee Andrewshttps://harringayonline.com/profile/misteroy
Fair enough, it's not complete bollocks, I agree it probably was a waste of cash too - that's PR generally though! I'm not a die-hard council apologist, I'm sure it's full of box ticking halfwits alongside talented people, and they deserve the boot (the halfwits), I just get fed up with all the crap generally turned out by the papers that people are willing to eat up as fact.<br />
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"HARINGEY council spent £19,000 on spin doctors hired to rebuild the image of former head of children's services Sharon…
Fair enough, it's not complete bollocks, I agree it probably was a waste of cash too - that's PR generally though! I'm not a die-hard council apologist, I'm sure it's full of box ticking halfwits alongside talented people, and they deserve the boot (the halfwits), I just get fed up with all the crap generally turned out by the papers that people are willing to eat up as fact.<br />
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"HARINGEY council spent £19,000 on spin doctors hired to rebuild the image of former head of children's services Sharon Shoesmith, it emerged today." says the Sun, is that really actually how it is? It may be, but I expect it's extrapolated from not much of a story to make it more juicy and give people something to foam at the mouth at. The real facts or context are never really there.<br />
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Doh.....now I'm doing it!!!! "HOL lurker enrages locals defending shamed council's spending" Lee, the chances are zero. Di…tag:harringayonline.com,2008-12-12:844301:Comment:808862008-12-12T01:10:46.930ZClive Carterhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/CliveCarter
Lee, the chances are zero. Did you find the story so preposterous that it was hard to believe? Welcome to Haringey and its huge PR spending. Even John and Tom accepted that the <i>Evening Standard's</i> story was factual.<br />
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The sense of denial over the whole Baby P tragedy, from the council and its supporters, runs deep. The council has a problematic relationship with our free press and when it gets defensive, the messenger tends to get confused with the message. The council wants to shoot both!…
Lee, the chances are zero. Did you find the story so preposterous that it was hard to believe? Welcome to Haringey and its huge PR spending. Even John and Tom accepted that the <i>Evening Standard's</i> story was factual.<br />
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The sense of denial over the whole Baby P tragedy, from the council and its supporters, runs deep. The council has a problematic relationship with our free press and when it gets defensive, the messenger tends to get confused with the message. The council wants to shoot both! None of the Baby P story (and possibly Child C) would have come to light but for the Court Case, where the Judge had to insist Haringey release documents to the court.<br />
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For the sake of the extreme die-hard council apologists out there, <i>The Evening <a href="http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23598322-details/%C2%A319%2C000+spent+on+spin+doctor+for+care+chief/article.do">Standard</a></i> was not the only paper to carry the story about the £19,000 spent on PR for Santry and Shoesmith (possibly other individuals). Other outlets carrying the story were:<br />
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The <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/dec/08/baby-p-childprotection">Guardian</a><br />
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The <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/baby-p-social-services-chief-sacked-1057792.html">Independent</a>,<br />
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The <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article5308208.ece">Times</a>,<br />
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The <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1092821/Haringey-council-paid-19-000-spin-doctors-protect-Baby-P-social-worker.html">Daily Mail</a>,<br />
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The <a href="http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2014141.ece">Sun</a>,<br />
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The <a href="http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/74798/Baby-P-Social-services-boss-is-finally-fired-">Express</a>,<br />
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The <a href="http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/61562">Daily Star</a>,<br />
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The <a href="http://www.birminghammail.net/news/national-news/2008/12/08/baby-p-social-services-chief-sacked-97319-22432271/">Birmingham Mail</a>,<br />
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<a href="http://www.anorak.co.uk/twitterings/197411.html">Anorak</a>,<br />
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(These are most of the papers that Google came up with). Perhaps all these newspapers are "bollocks" and the truth will only be revealed in a forthcoming edition of our Three Star Beacon council's <i>Haringey People</i> publication ... What are the chances that thi…tag:harringayonline.com,2008-12-11:844301:Comment:808382008-12-11T20:22:06.361ZLee Andrewshttps://harringayonline.com/profile/misteroy
What are the chances that this whole ES story is b*llocks anyway!
What are the chances that this whole ES story is b*llocks anyway! It might be what the nurse ge…tag:harringayonline.com,2008-12-11:844301:Comment:807762008-12-11T14:54:10.746ZJohn McMullanhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/bogan72
It might be what the nurse gets but it's not what the NHS would have to pay. Employer NI contributions? Pension?<br />
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How much does Max Clifford charge? The ES article you linked to above (the second time I've clicked through to something you've put as a reference and felt creeped out) states that it was to three different firms who provided "team roleplay" training. You know what... I bet she was not the only person in that room either. In fact, I put it to you that the two people who received the…
It might be what the nurse gets but it's not what the NHS would have to pay. Employer NI contributions? Pension?<br />
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How much does Max Clifford charge? The ES article you linked to above (the second time I've clicked through to something you've put as a reference and felt creeped out) states that it was to three different firms who provided "team roleplay" training. You know what... I bet she was not the only person in that room either. In fact, I put it to you that the two people who received the training that cost 19K were being trained at the same time and that there was only one charge of 19K.