Christmas for Ally Pally's WWI Prisoners - Harringay online2024-03-28T11:42:01Zhttps://harringayonline.com/forum/topics/christmas-for-ally-pally-s-wwi-prisoners?groupUrl=historyofharringay&commentId=844301%3AComment%3A1523718&groupId=844301%3AGroup%3A10&feed=yes&xn_auth=noOh wow, what a terrible exper…tag:harringayonline.com,2023-01-12:844301:Comment:15237182023-01-12T18:35:41.019ZJohn Shulverhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/John_Shulver
<p>Oh wow, what a terrible experience that must have been for those 'innocent' people. But, must remember that this was a common place occurence throughout the warring nations. It sounds and was no doubt terribly harsh but the powers that be must be seen to protect their public as much as possible. However one can only imagine the disruption caused to family life living in such conditions. Imagine sleeping amongst hoards of strangers, the noise, the lack of privacy etc, etc. And I would…</p>
<p>Oh wow, what a terrible experience that must have been for those 'innocent' people. But, must remember that this was a common place occurence throughout the warring nations. It sounds and was no doubt terribly harsh but the powers that be must be seen to protect their public as much as possible. However one can only imagine the disruption caused to family life living in such conditions. Imagine sleeping amongst hoards of strangers, the noise, the lack of privacy etc, etc. And I would imagine the chill in such a vast space. However a very interesting article with great pics. If only wars were a thing of the past................!</p> Earlier in the same conflict…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-12-16:844301:Comment:15211582022-12-16T10:35:08.077ZPaul Soperhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/PaulSoper
<p>Earlier in the same conflict there were many Belgian refugees fleeing from the German advance who were also accommodated in Ally Pally at the beginning of the war<a href="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/10911611060?profile=original" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><img src="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/10911611060?profile=RESIZE_710x" class="align-full"/></a></p>
<p>Earlier in the same conflict there were many Belgian refugees fleeing from the German advance who were also accommodated in Ally Pally at the beginning of the war<a href="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/10911611060?profile=original" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><img src="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/10911611060?profile=RESIZE_710x" class="align-full"/></a></p> I've read such friendly verba…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-12-09:844301:Comment:15205452022-12-09T16:59:40.988ZRuthhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/Ruth70
<p>I've read such friendly verbal exchanges across the trenches about the German butchers and bakers in England and other tradespeople in 'Forgotten Voices of the Great War', Max Arthur. This is such a good book. <br/>War is always a terrible thing. Some profit from it though, always. </p>
<p>I've read such friendly verbal exchanges across the trenches about the German butchers and bakers in England and other tradespeople in 'Forgotten Voices of the Great War', Max Arthur. This is such a good book. <br/>War is always a terrible thing. Some profit from it though, always. </p> The late - and great - Janet…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-12-09:844301:Comment:15202412022-12-09T13:40:53.854ZJustinHhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/JustinH
<p>The late - and great - Janet Harris gave a talk about the internment. Her German grandfather, a Mr Turk, was interned here. Janet was a local historian who was the author of several book, including one on the Tottenham Outrage (1909). </p>
<p>The late - and great - Janet Harris gave a talk about the internment. Her German grandfather, a Mr Turk, was interned here. Janet was a local historian who was the author of several book, including one on the Tottenham Outrage (1909). </p> Utterly inhuman treatment. Ve…tag:harringayonline.com,2022-12-09:844301:Comment:15202302022-12-09T12:32:41.506ZRichard Woodshttps://harringayonline.com/profile/RichardWoods
<p>Utterly inhuman treatment. Vengeful and barbarous. </p>
<p>Utterly inhuman treatment. Vengeful and barbarous. </p> So many people interned and p…tag:harringayonline.com,2014-12-10:844301:Comment:7083652014-12-10T17:39:59.741ZRuthhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/Ruth70
<p>So many people interned and packed up 'home'. Which probably didn't feel like home to many and I bet they suffered abuse in Germany for having lived in England for so long. </p>
<p><br></br>I've read of verbal encounters across the trenches (friendly communication when they were meant to be killing each other) of people knowing so-and-so the German butcher or baker from somewhere and saying how great their ham used to be or such like. But then they were ordered to stop such exchanges and get…</p>
<p>So many people interned and packed up 'home'. Which probably didn't feel like home to many and I bet they suffered abuse in Germany for having lived in England for so long. </p>
<p><br/>I've read of verbal encounters across the trenches (friendly communication when they were meant to be killing each other) of people knowing so-and-so the German butcher or baker from somewhere and saying how great their ham used to be or such like. But then they were ordered to stop such exchanges and get back to fighting…</p>
<p>The sinking of the Lusitania plus the attacks on homes in Scarboro (was it there?) did change public feeling and handed our govt. a huge propaganda and recruiting tool I suppose. </p> It was the sinking of the Lus…tag:harringayonline.com,2014-12-09:844301:Comment:7079362014-12-09T22:05:09.670ZLizhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/Liz
<p>It was the sinking of the Lusitania that prompted internment. Up to that point, the government under Asquith had just registered them as enemy aliens but left them in the community probably because the logistics of keeping that many people locked up was a headache they would have preferred to avoid - Ally Pally had already been home to Belgian refugees so was probably already set up. The poor internees were stuck in tents in Aldershot to start with.</p>
<p>It was the sinking of the Lusitania that prompted internment. Up to that point, the government under Asquith had just registered them as enemy aliens but left them in the community probably because the logistics of keeping that many people locked up was a headache they would have preferred to avoid - Ally Pally had already been home to Belgian refugees so was probably already set up. The poor internees were stuck in tents in Aldershot to start with.</p> It's a fascinating topic, not…tag:harringayonline.com,2014-12-09:844301:Comment:7080712014-12-09T22:01:46.642ZLizhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/Liz
<p>It's a fascinating topic, not much written about in the history books although there are one or two. There was also extensive repatriation <span>(many went voluntarily and were probably glad to go as vicious anti-German hysteria gripped the country)</span> - all single women with less than 5 yrs residency were sent 'home' immediately - as well as internment. It in effect destroyed a big and thriving German community that had grown during the Victorian and Edwardian period - lots of German…</p>
<p>It's a fascinating topic, not much written about in the history books although there are one or two. There was also extensive repatriation <span>(many went voluntarily and were probably glad to go as vicious anti-German hysteria gripped the country)</span> - all single women with less than 5 yrs residency were sent 'home' immediately - as well as internment. It in effect destroyed a big and thriving German community that had grown during the Victorian and Edwardian period - lots of German names appear in directories of Tottenham.</p>
<p>According to the sparse academic literature on it, Ally Pally saw 17,000 men pass through its doors, although never more than 3,000 at one time, until its closure in 1919 - not all German civilians, but apparently any "undesirable" could find themselves interned there, including criminals and...er...missionaries. </p> Completely agree, internment…tag:harringayonline.com,2014-12-09:844301:Comment:7078362014-12-09T21:56:32.506ZRuthhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/Ruth70
<p>Completely agree, internment camps not to be confused with PoW camps. Most inmates at former were happily living and working side by side as residents of this country till the war was started. Then bang- they became the enemy within. Changing their surname might have worked for the Windsors and prevented them from being interned…. but no such luck with many German residents in London and elsewhere.</p>
<p>Completely agree, internment camps not to be confused with PoW camps. Most inmates at former were happily living and working side by side as residents of this country till the war was started. Then bang- they became the enemy within. Changing their surname might have worked for the Windsors and prevented them from being interned…. but no such luck with many German residents in London and elsewhere.</p> True. I remember reading that…tag:harringayonline.com,2014-12-09:844301:Comment:7079932014-12-09T21:29:42.686ZRuthhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/Ruth70
<p>True. I remember reading that on another related post you did a while back. Seemed no escape ultimately for that hell. </p>
<p>So sad. I'm still trying to write my account of Talbot House (Toc H) in Poperinge, near Ypres from my visit there last month. It keeps getting longer… I'll share it when I'm done. Maybe some Harringay soldiers had passed through the doors of that small bit of paradise in the hell of the Ypres Salient.</p>
<p>True. I remember reading that on another related post you did a while back. Seemed no escape ultimately for that hell. </p>
<p>So sad. I'm still trying to write my account of Talbot House (Toc H) in Poperinge, near Ypres from my visit there last month. It keeps getting longer… I'll share it when I'm done. Maybe some Harringay soldiers had passed through the doors of that small bit of paradise in the hell of the Ypres Salient.</p>