Wood Green Consultation now available on-line, by email or by post - Harringay online2024-03-28T13:16:58Zhttps://harringayonline.com/forum/topics/844301:Topic:46188?commentId=844301%3AComment%3A61050&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noJust had a look. A grand tota…tag:harringayonline.com,2008-08-22:844301:Comment:610502008-08-22T21:02:38.457ZAlison Phttps://harringayonline.com/profile/Alison
Just had a look. A grand total of 14 people used the online facility (though many made more than one comment). Most responses either about traffic or plans for Duckett's Common.<br />
<br />
Didn't they say they'd put all the comments they'd received online? (Tell me they aren't there already please).
Just had a look. A grand total of 14 people used the online facility (though many made more than one comment). Most responses either about traffic or plans for Duckett's Common.<br />
<br />
Didn't they say they'd put all the comments they'd received online? (Tell me they aren't there already please). Comments made on the consulta…tag:harringayonline.com,2008-08-22:844301:Comment:610102008-08-22T17:58:06.569ZHughhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/hjuk
<a href="https://haringey-consultation.limehouse.co.uk/common/search/advanced_search.jsp?page=0&pageSize=20&eventId=2674&sortMode=response_date&lookingFor=representations&tab=list" target="_blank">Comments made on the consultation portal</a> are finally available.
<a href="https://haringey-consultation.limehouse.co.uk/common/search/advanced_search.jsp?page=0&pageSize=20&eventId=2674&sortMode=response_date&lookingFor=representations&tab=list" target="_blank">Comments made on the consultation portal</a> are finally available. Just checked the on-line cons…tag:harringayonline.com,2008-08-19:844301:Comment:605502008-08-19T18:06:08.291ZHughhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/hjuk
Just checked the on-line consultation portal - just about two months down the line and none of our comments have appeared yet. I'm sure they led me to expect to see them put up within a month - and I thoght that seemed a hell of a log time.
Just checked the on-line consultation portal - just about two months down the line and none of our comments have appeared yet. I'm sure they led me to expect to see them put up within a month - and I thoght that seemed a hell of a log time. Hooray, I've just had my seco…tag:harringayonline.com,2008-06-22:844301:Comment:500062008-06-22T19:54:20.997ZAlison Phttps://harringayonline.com/profile/Alison
Hooray, I've just had my second acknowledgement of my email! But no opinions yet, just this ...<br />
<br />
"Thank you for your email of the 13th June 2008 which I received on the 17th June 2008.<br />
<br />
I have asked the appropriate officer to look into the issues you have raised. We will send the response to Cllr Amin by 30th June 2008."<br />
<br />
So don't be holding your breath or nuffink.
Hooray, I've just had my second acknowledgement of my email! But no opinions yet, just this ...<br />
<br />
"Thank you for your email of the 13th June 2008 which I received on the 17th June 2008.<br />
<br />
I have asked the appropriate officer to look into the issues you have raised. We will send the response to Cllr Amin by 30th June 2008."<br />
<br />
So don't be holding your breath or nuffink. Following the discussion on h…tag:harringayonline.com,2008-06-13:844301:Comment:481692008-06-13T14:32:39.383ZLizhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/Liz
Following the discussion on here, I have written to Lorna Reith, the Cabinet Member for Community Cohesion and Involvement about the Limehouse Portal,<br />
<br />
"Dear Ms Reith,<br />
I am writing to you to express my concern about the effectiveness of the the<br />
online consultation portal that the Council have set up. I have tried to use it<br />
on two occasions and have found the site very difficult to negotiate.<br />
I have registered to use it now and have left a comment on the Wood Green SPD<br />
but am surprised to…
Following the discussion on here, I have written to Lorna Reith, the Cabinet Member for Community Cohesion and Involvement about the Limehouse Portal,<br />
<br />
"Dear Ms Reith,<br />
I am writing to you to express my concern about the effectiveness of the the<br />
online consultation portal that the Council have set up. I have tried to use it<br />
on two occasions and have found the site very difficult to negotiate.<br />
I have registered to use it now and have left a comment on the Wood Green SPD<br />
but am surprised to discover, through correspondence with the department<br />
responsible for this consultation, that comments made are not published until<br />
one month after the consultation closes even though the document implies by the<br />
way it is set up that you will be able to see what people have written.<br />
<br />
I fully understand the reasoning that the council came to the decision not to<br />
have comments visible before the end of the consultation, as they want comments<br />
on the document not discussion, but I would suggest that it is counterproductive<br />
that when you click on the "Who said what?" button that you are told there are<br />
no comments on the document. This implies that nobody is bothering to comment<br />
and psycologically, I feel that people will not attempt to add comments on a<br />
website that appears to have no traffic. A simple remedy for this would be for<br />
the welcome page to register the number of comments, if not the actual content,<br />
although a simple process of delaying publication of responses for 24 hours<br />
would enable officials to weed out the irrelevant and still allow informed<br />
comment to be read by interested parties. A comment counter would make people<br />
feel like the document was part of an active consultation process.<br />
<br />
I am therefore requesting a number of things:<br />
1. Please could you review the current layout of the website and introduce a<br />
user friendly welcome page that would explain about how commenting works, why<br />
people need to register quite so many of their personal details (another thing<br />
which may put people off) and what to expect once their comment has been<br />
registered.<br />
<br />
2. To do away with comment buttons and "Who said what" links and introduce a<br />
simple counter system which tells people how many comments have been left.The<br />
interface is unnecessarily busy and over complex as it stands.<br />
<br />
3. Many national government pages have discussion forums on their documents for<br />
consultation. It would be useful for Haringey to introduce something like this<br />
to allow for general comments. This of course could be moderated to safeguard<br />
against abuse.<br />
<br />
4. In the correspondence, I learned that NO comments on the Housing SPD were<br />
made online which surprises me given the strength of feeling on the housing<br />
issue in the borough. Therefore, I would like to know how much the Limehouse<br />
portal cost to set up and maintain. Given that there has been apparently little<br />
traffic on it so far I am wondering whether it represents either effective<br />
community consultation or value for money." The points about comments and…tag:harringayonline.com,2008-06-12:844301:Comment:480142008-06-12T17:13:38.182ZLizhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/Liz
The points about comments and relevance is fair but a simple 24 hour delay before publishing would ensure that people stay 'on topic'. The links should not imply that comments are visible or that your comments will be visible if that is not the case. If you click, 'Who said what?', you are told there are no comments on the document , this could easily simply tell you the number of comments received at that point. I agree with Hugh also that a welcome page that explained the process, the reasons…
The points about comments and relevance is fair but a simple 24 hour delay before publishing would ensure that people stay 'on topic'. The links should not imply that comments are visible or that your comments will be visible if that is not the case. If you click, 'Who said what?', you are told there are no comments on the document , this could easily simply tell you the number of comments received at that point. I agree with Hugh also that a welcome page that explained the process, the reasons for having to register etc would take no time to set up.<br />
Discussion forums could be set to accompany the document as you find on government websites,<br />
<a href="http://haveyoursay.communities.gov.uk/forums/">http://haveyoursay.communities.gov.uk/forums/</a><br />
<br />
Finally , I would imagine that it cost a lot of money to set this up and buy the software. I would like to know how much. If few people are using the service, it does not represent a good use of public money. I just spoke with Limehouse w…tag:harringayonline.com,2008-06-12:844301:Comment:479852008-06-12T15:32:05.435ZHughhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/hjuk
I just spoke with Limehouse who sold the software to Haringey. I explained the issue raised here re the lack of visibility of other commentators or comments. I also raised the issue of the system's complexity and the lack of transparency as to the process.<br />
<br />
The outcome:<br />
<br />
1. Lack of visibility of other comments - intentional because Haringey want comments on the plan not on others' comments. I can see the point and from a practical data usability pov am inclined to agree. One can imagine that a…
I just spoke with Limehouse who sold the software to Haringey. I explained the issue raised here re the lack of visibility of other commentators or comments. I also raised the issue of the system's complexity and the lack of transparency as to the process.<br />
<br />
The outcome:<br />
<br />
1. Lack of visibility of other comments - intentional because Haringey want comments on the plan not on others' comments. I can see the point and from a practical data usability pov am inclined to agree. One can imagine that a debate might develop which would lack focus. The place for that debate would be in a live discussion, not via the portal. BUT they should explain this on the website AND they should make a commentator count visible so that we know we're part of an active consultation and not pissing in the wind. (Btw, technically it wd be possible for Haringey to moderate the comments and make them visible the next day - quite why it takes a month I'm not sure).<br />
<br />
2. Complexity & Transparency - what can he say about complexity. It's up to the Council how complex they make each consultation. He was able to confirm that they don't have to offer such a painstakingly detailed set-up.<br />
<br />
With regards to transparency he accepted my feedback about commentator count and the need for greater explanation of the process on the site.<br />
<br />
My point in calling Limehouse by the way was twofold:<br />
<br />
A. To shortcut council bureaucracy and go straight to the horse's mouth.<br />
<br />
B. As a way of influencing the way the portal's set-up. Their business is at risk if the portal's not used. It's in their interest to work with the Council to get it changed - if they're any good, that is. I've just sent this to Cllr K…tag:harringayonline.com,2008-06-12:844301:Comment:479832008-06-12T15:32:04.641ZAlison Phttps://harringayonline.com/profile/Alison
I've just sent this to Cllr Kaushika Amin who is in charge of Enterprise and Regeneration at Haringey (this falls under her remit). Will let you know if I hear anything useful...<br />
<br />
Dear Councillor Amin<br />
<br />
I have just responded to the online consultation about the Wood Green Town<br />
Centre Draft SPD, via the Limehouse Portal set up for the purpose.<br />
<br />
I wanted to let you know how frustrating I found this process. The system<br />
itself takes a while to understand and navigate, as does the fact that<br />
comments…
I've just sent this to Cllr Kaushika Amin who is in charge of Enterprise and Regeneration at Haringey (this falls under her remit). Will let you know if I hear anything useful...<br />
<br />
Dear Councillor Amin<br />
<br />
I have just responded to the online consultation about the Wood Green Town<br />
Centre Draft SPD, via the Limehouse Portal set up for the purpose.<br />
<br />
I wanted to let you know how frustrating I found this process. The system<br />
itself takes a while to understand and navigate, as does the fact that<br />
comments have to be made in relation to specific points (eg 3.1, 3.2 etc).<br />
But I found it particularly frustrating when I realised that not only did<br />
my comments have to be 'approved' (and that if they were not approved they<br />
would be returned as 'inadmissable') but that no comments at all would be<br />
visible until the consultation process was over.<br />
<br />
I have two concerns about this decision.<br />
<br />
1. The website is set up in such a way that you assume you will see<br />
comments. There are tabs everywhere called 'view comments' - when you<br />
click on them and are told there are no comments, your only assumption has<br />
to be that nobody has commented. This certainly calls into question the<br />
design and layout of the website. But more importantly I think it sends<br />
out entirely the wrong message about such a key development in the heart<br />
of our neighbourhoods - that nobody is very interested in commenting. I<br />
doubt it encourages anyone who is looking at the website to comment<br />
either.<br />
<br />
2. Surely people SHOULD be able to see what others have said? Even if<br />
people's comments need to be vetted (and I can see that this might be<br />
sensible to weed out entirely inappropriate comments), isn't it right that people can look at what other people think about this important development? I am interested in the fact that comments on planning permission decisions are made entirely public before the decision is made - yet this does not apply here (when one could argue that less personal issues are at stake).<br />
<br />
I hope you agree with me that local communities and their views are essentially important when issues like the Wood Green draft SPD are being discussed. I'm afraid that I don't think we are being given enough encouragement to do this, and that too much reliance is being placed on cumbersome and hard to navigate websites that only a small minority will ever access.<br />
<br />
I do look forward to hearing your views. ............and those who pre…tag:harringayonline.com,2008-06-12:844301:Comment:479742008-06-12T14:58:46.821ZHughhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/hjuk
............and those who prefer to have their opinions (or onions, as I nearly wrote) boxed into neat easy-to-ignore Councilthink format.<br />
<br />
I meant to add in my last post that comments added via the simple format in the WG microsite (2 above) are treated in exactly the same way as commenst added to the portal.
............and those who prefer to have their opinions (or onions, as I nearly wrote) boxed into neat easy-to-ignore Councilthink format.<br />
<br />
I meant to add in my last post that comments added via the simple format in the WG microsite (2 above) are treated in exactly the same way as commenst added to the portal. Look what I found - for those…tag:harringayonline.com,2008-06-12:844301:Comment:479722008-06-12T14:50:46.664ZTTTHhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/ttth
Look what I found - for those who prefer snail mail:<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.haringey.gov.uk/wood_green_town_centre_spd_consultation_leaflet.pdf">http://www.haringey.gov.uk/wood_green_town_centre_spd_consultation_leaflet.pdf</a>
Look what I found - for those who prefer snail mail:<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.haringey.gov.uk/wood_green_town_centre_spd_consultation_leaflet.pdf">http://www.haringey.gov.uk/wood_green_town_centre_spd_consultation_leaflet.pdf</a>